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Illicit Arms Kept 'Til Eve of War, Iraqi Scientist Asserts

 
 
Montana
 
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Reply Mon 21 Apr, 2003 11:25 pm
bookmark
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mamajuana
 
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Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2003 01:27 pm
New York Times today does not confirm the story, but does have one of those interesting follow-ups in which the denial is there, but in other language. And the US does not want Hans Blix or the other inspectors back, but will look at about 1000 names of their own choosing. In other words, the question still is "Where are the WMD?"

Some discrepancies have already been noted. One of the complaints issued pre-victory was that the inspectors were failing to find weapons, apparently from their own motives. The U.S. reported it had fairly detailed knowledge of where these weapons were, but chose not to share that information with the inspectors. Several possible finds have been reported, but all have, so far, been refuted, a lot of them like the inspectors said.

When the news of a find was reported in the Times yesterday, there was also a small note somewhere that said further news was being held until it could be verified.
Here is the article from today's Times:

http://wwwnytimes.com/reuters/news/news-iraq-weapons.html.

Question still remains.
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2003 02:02 pm
Have you tested that link, Mammaj? All I got was advertising.
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Craven de Kere
 
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Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2003 02:19 pm
It's a domain squatter. Insert a . after the www. Otherwise the domain you are actually going to is: www.wwwnytimes.com.
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Craven de Kere
 
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Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2003 02:19 pm
Also no . after the html
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Phoenix32890
 
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Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2003 02:49 pm
Thanks, Craven- I finally got the article:

Quote:
April 22, 2003
U.S. Still Confident It Will Find WMD in Iraq
By REUTERS


Filed at 10:38 a.m. ET

AS SAYLIYA CAMP, Qatar (Reuters) - The U.S. military remains confident it will find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, even though it has yet to discover any after a month in the country, a U.S. general said on Tuesday.

Numerous suspect substances have been tested but so far none have been found to be illicit weapons, Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks told a news briefing at Central Command's war headquarters in Qatar.

``We've not found any weaponized chemicals, biological agents or any nuclear devices at this point. That work is ongoing,'' Brooks said.

``We remain confident that we'll find evidence of the program that's been in place in Iraq for some time.''

The allegation that Iraq under Saddam Hussein had stores of weapons of mass destruction was a key reason for the U.S.-led invasion that began on March 20. In some cases, the military has found substances that could have been turned into illicit weapons, but they were in quantities ``too small to be weaponized'' or they had another, more peaceful purpose such as crop fertilizer, Brooks said. Some of the materials have been sent to labs in the United States for further testing that could still prove them to be banned weapons, he said.

Brooks said the military believed captured Iraqi leaders may provide information that will lead to weapons. He also said documents and computer drives seized by U.S.-led forces could hold incriminating evidence.

The U.S. military reportedly has plans to bring in 1,000 experts to greatly expand the weapons search, but so far has not accepted an offer from United Nations chief weapons inspector Hans Blix to send U.N. inspection teams back to Iraq.

The U.N. inspectors found no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq in the months leading up to the war, but said they did not have time to finish the job before the war began.


Well, it looks like we just have to wait and see!
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mamajuana
 
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Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2003 03:28 pm
And that's the difference when I just try to copy it down. I think I'm accurate until I see what I've added or left out. Ordinarily I'll just go up to the address and save.

Anyway, I guess the world is still waiting to hear about those weapons, which were, supposedly, one of the major reasons for this invasion. The other, of course, being the liberation of those poor Iraqis.

Maybe Osama binLaden took them all with him? Can't find him, either.
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Frank Apisa
 
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Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2003 04:14 pm
One -- we've had other "good leads" that simply did not pan out. Let's wait and see what develops.

Two - the guy may be in fear. People who are fearful will give you what you want even if they have to manufacture it. And if the people you fear really want what you are giving them, they will build it up to make it look more like what they want.

George Bush wants WMD. My guess is he will get them.

And we will never know for sure if the evidence is found whether or not it was manufactured by the US -- and if it is not found, whether or not it was sent somewhere else or destroyed at the last minute.

This war was an unnecessary and innappropriate undertaking in any case.
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cicerone imposter
 
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Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2003 07:06 pm
FA, No use decrying the war: it's happened, and it's almost over. What's past can't be changed. As for WMD's in Iraq, we just need to be patient, and wait until enough ex-chemists, scientists, and physicists come forward to reveal what Iraq has, and what they worked on. c.i.
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mamajuana
 
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Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2003 10:11 pm
But, CI, what if they aren't there? The US said it had real intel on maybe 36 sites, but for some reason never handed over that information to the inspectors who were actually on the ground. And then it turned out that most of the intel the hawks were relying on came from the Iraqi National Congress (Richard Perle had said he took their word over the CIA, who warned against a lot of it). And that INC information turned out to be a jumble and a hodge podge of bits and pieces cobbled together. And that jumble was the argument that Powell presented to the UN, to convince them. And just after that the British papers published side-by-side comparisons of what Powell presented, and the sources it had been taken from - some of them cribbed from theses, some of it over 12 years old - none of it provable or proven.

Tonight I heard a report on PBS from Judith Miller, of the New York Times, saying they had found another site, which may prove definitive. But there were two experts on the show who said that many times people who come forward (as in this case) are trying to ingratiate themselves, and that so far the information was not reliable.

I think Bush and company will find their dream weapons - but by then the discovery will be highly suspect.
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2003 05:02 am
Little by little, information is dribbling out of Iraq. Nothing that you could hang your hat on though, but...................

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20030423_142.html

If the bacteria were innocuous, why were they ordered destroyed? Confused
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owi
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2003 05:54 am
Quote:
Rasheed said some basic materials were destroyed just to avoid any suspicions that they could be used for military purposes.
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nimh
 
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Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2003 06:21 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
If the bacteria were innocuous, why were they ordered destroyed? Confused

Well, - just speculating - the article suggests this:

Quote:
But their accounts indicate [..] that the former Iraqi regime was deeply concerned about any material that could raise the suspicion of U.N. experts. [..] "The order was to hide anything that might make the inspectors suspicious."

and
Quote:
Rasheed said some basic materials were destroyed just to avoid any suspicions that they could be used for military purposes. "We took home media for culturing bacteria and shaker-incubators used for fermentation," he said. "Now we will bring them back."

I mean - remember when you were a teenager and you were almost caught at something you hadnt actually done that time, though you'd done it often enough before? Like, say, you used to secretly smoke pot often enough, just not now, not anymore - but still, who's gonna believe that when they find the ashtray and remaining half-empty pack of king size cigarette paper? Y're gonna quickly throw those away when your dad's knocking on your bedroom door, aren't ya.

<shrugs> But that's just one random take. It's like Frank says, "we've had other "good leads" that simply did not pan out" - so many announcements of suspicious finds they then had to back out of. Perhaps Saddam did have remaining forbidden stuff, perhaps he didn't. The claims of US intelligence that the UN inspectors were botching up, deliberately so even, and that the US knew all about what was really going on - claims that were used to justify its right to start this war - certainly look disingenious now.
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nimh
 
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Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2003 06:33 am
Remember these two things about Powell's claims: first, there was supposedly no reason for allowing any of the extra time the weapon inspectors were claiming they needed to unearth the WMD - having been back to Iraq for only 3 1/2 months after a 4-year hiatus. Now it turns out the Americans need that extra time.

Second - and this is really the bottom line I think: the main justification of the war was that we needed to act straight away - that we simply couldnt afford the delay - because Iraq posed an immediate, acute threat to world security through its WMD.

Now something might well still be found in ways of illicit substances - it would stand to reason. But I think by now it seems clear that Iraq had none of the suggested ready-for-use weapons of mass destruction that would have posed such an acute threat to world stability.

The summary of the status thus far may well be encapsulated in this quote from the article, I think:

Quote:
Such laboratory equipment, used by scientists to grow bacteria for study, could theoretically be used to create biological agents such as anthrax. But the equipment would be much too small to generate biological weapons in the quantities Iraq has been accused of producing.

Rasheed said none of the materials were being used for weapons development, but that he was unsure whether any were banned by U.N. resolutions adopted at the end of the 1991 Gulf War, which prohibited Iraqi research into weapons of mass destruction.

"Maybe some were banned. I don't know. We just wanted to avoid problems," Rasheed said.
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dlowan
 
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Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2003 06:45 am
All the king's horses and all the king's men...............?
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dyslexia
 
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Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2003 07:15 am
8 x 10 glossy of ? high degree of intelligence proves? we have knowledge we can't share ? they didn't need more time- but we do?
is there something rotten in the Pentagon or is it just stinky in the WhiteHouse?
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2003 10:12 am
dyslexia wrote:
8 x 10 glossy of ? high degree of intelligence proves? we have knowledge we can't share ? they didn't need more time- but we do?
is there something rotten in the Pentagon or is it just stinky in the WhiteHouse?


IF you had included the option (or both) I would have voted for it.
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