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Fri 18 Nov, 2005 01:37 am
What I would like for some of you kind folk to tell me is this.
You know that type of jazz where all the musicians kind of ad lib, they all play (it seems) anything they feel like, and there doesn't seem to be a script.
What is the name for that type of jazz?
Its traditional jazz or dixieland very often referred to as Trad jazz
It actually sounds to me like you're talking about free jazz. All jazz is somewhat ad-libbed. but dixieland has a structure. some "free jazz" has a structure to -- but it's much more about near-total improvisation.
i think "scat" is actually ad-lib type jazz. i could be wrong but i think thats the name of it.
I think you're thinking of "improvisational jazz", or "improv".
nope (in reply to cobinrapner), scat is an improvised vocal using syllables, like oop bop sh bam (which is actually the title of a Dizzy Gillespie composition)
Dixieland is collective improvisation, but highly structured--everyone plays in the same key & tempo, for example--while in free jazz, almost anything goes. a famous example is the allbum Free Jazz by Ornette Coleman.
I'm sticking with "improv"
Quote:free improvisation
improvising without reference to harmony, often in an atonal context. In free improvisation, the focus usually shifts to areas that can be masked in harmonic improvisation: timbre, melodic intervals, rhythm, and constant interaction among musicians.
For an example, listen to the following example from the World Saxophone Quartet's "Steppin': Audio.
free rhythm
music that flows through time without regularly occurring pulses. One appropriate metaphor for free rhythm is "breath rhythm."
An example of free rhythm is the opening from John Coltrane's A Love Supreme: Audio.
harmonic improvisation
creating a new melodic line by drawing on notes from each chord as it goes by in the harmonic progression. Also known in jazz slang as "running the changes".
An example: the opening of a song uses the harmony C in bar 1, then G7 in bar 2. (All you need to know is that the chord "C" contains certain notes, while the chord "G7" contains other notes.) During bar 1, any notes from the "C" chord will be consonant, and others are likely to be dissonant (i.e., they will produce tension that needs to be resolved). In bar 2, the situation shifts: the consonant notes are those in the "G7" chord. A soloist using harmonic improvisation must keep track of the chords (or "changes," as jazz musicians often call them) and continually adjust the melodic line to fit the harmonic background.
Coleman Hawkins's performance on "Body and Soul" provides one excellent example of harmonic improvisation: Audio. Another famous example is John Coltrane's harmonic improvisation on the chord changes to his tune, "Giant Steps." Coltrane's melodic line effortlessly adjusts to find notes that are consonant with the chords in the rapidly moving harmonic progression: Audio
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~skd9r/MUSI212_new/materials/definitions1.html#freeimprovisation
Ooops. I thought you meant "Nope" to me.
nope. (and i do mean you this time)
nice write-up you quoted. (but they need to update it to mention smooth jazz: kidding). what it calls free improvisation, i would call free jazz, and since a lot of jazz is improvised, i imagine either term will do.
I think elementary is correct. Improv has some structure, at least a base melody line on which the individual musicians then improvise. But what has come to be known as 'free' is not only free, sometimes it's downright anarchistic.
That is just a snippet from the site!
It makes me wish I had a sound card in my computer but I lollygag enough as it is without the added distraction of all of the music available on the net.
Well, Don, jazz is my forte. When a musician plays around the melody it is, as boomer said, improvisation, or "wingin' it". Scat, on the other hand is a vocalist thing, and it is an attempt at imitating an instrument with the voice.
The beat is also important in jazz. It can include playing on the beat or syncopation.
Chord changes are also a big part of the jazz scene, buddy.
Yer right as rain, Letty, but Don was asking what a particular type of jazz which seems to have no rules is called. Back in my youthful days, we had ragtime and dixieland (traditional), be-bop (innovative), and modern progressive (really a mix of jazz and more standard music, exemplified by Stan Kenton and described by Gunther Schuler as 'third stream.') You don't hear the term 'modern progressive' much any more. What you do hear now are terms like 'group improv', 'free' and 'fusion.' I believe that for Don's purposes, 'free' would be the best word to describe the type of music he refers to.
I started off not knowing the answer to my question and now I'm worse off than I started, can I phrase this differently? I like Kenny Ball and his jazzmen, I like Dave Brubecks "Take five" I like Acker bilk's "Stranger on the shore"
Which kind of jazz are the above?
BTW nice to hear from you Letty
elementary wrote:It actually sounds to me like you're talking about free jazz. All jazz is somewhat ad-libbed. but dixieland has a structure. some "free jazz" has a structure to -- but it's much more about near-total improvisation.
Don1,
In my opinion, this is probably the closest answer to your original question. It's like the musical equivalent of someone yelling "foodfight" in a recording studio or soundstage.
Your results may vary...
D1, i doubt Acker Bilk qualifies as jazz. Kenny Ball i've never heard of. Brubeck is an example of West Coast, or perhaps, "cool" jazz. anyway, if you like Bilk & Brubeck, chances are you wouldn't care for "free" jazz.
Good thread, Don. Actually, jazz is the only pure form of American music. It was begun by black slaves and developed into the "free" form that yitwail refers to. It is my belief that is an innate thing, and becomes enhanced by classical instruction.
just looked up Kenny Ball, he's the chap who recorded Midnight in Moscow, a tune i'm familiar with. i'm pretty sure now that Don was thinking of Dixieland jazz when he started the thread. the Dixieland musician par excellence was Louis Armstrong, of course. (Dixieland wasn't the only style Armstrong played in, but it's the style he's best known for.) i'm not sure if anyone actually records new Dixieland music anymore, as opposed to re-recording standards that go back 50 years or more.
Kenny Ball was part of the British trad jazz scene, as I recall, not the same as but kind of allied to American Dixieland (the trad jazz guys also provided a home for some of the early 60s Brits who went on to British blues, like John Mayall and Alexis Korner, and 60s British rock). They looked to early 20th century New Orleans music as their major model, I think (skiffle also took some inspiration from the trad jazz guys). Dave Brubeck was kind of 50s cool.
I'm part of the developing consensus that "free jazz" is probably what Don was thinking of. Improvisation has always been part of jazz, but free jazz does indeed practice it on a different level.
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