OK!! I admit it!! I'm Selfish!! How about You??

me too

no kids, no wife, no major responsibilities

i like my toys, my books, my cd's and dvd's and i'm not giving them up for somebody else

and i'm not going to get married and have kids and end up resenting them for making me change or worse yet abandoning them to continue my selfish pursuits

Re: OK!! I admit it!! I'm Selfish!! How about You??
First off, I think I was selfish when I was younger - in my teens and 20s. As I've aged, I've feel I've mellowed a lot (my wife has confirmed this ) and am now much less selfish and also more flexible about various things.

I feel in order to make a marriage successful, you have to be able to give and take and to see the other's point of view. Certainly when one has children, one has to make an awful lot of sacrifices. It's the nature of having children.

As I get older, my outlook on life has changed and these days, more than anything, I look for not much more out of life than contentment. And peace and quiet, a very valuable commodity these days.


There's nothing wrong, in my opinion, about not being, or not wanting to be a parent. It's not everybody's "cup of tea". I, myself, wondered if I was cut out for it in my early parenting days in the '80s. I have regrets that I could have done better, had more patience, helped out with the early child-rearing days more, but there it is.

In my latter years as a parent, I think I improved a lot, and now that our kids are in their 20s, I feel Im quite supportive, especially with our older daughter.

Again, it's my opinion that some just aren't wired a certain way to have children. In my opinion again, for me having had children isn't the end all, be all of my life. Just a part of it.


No, I don't see that you haven't done anything except be very honest about how you feel. It's better to do this up front, rather than have children for all the wrong reasons. Too many do this. I could write you a post about our neighbors next door that would illustrate my point exactly.


While I have mentally agreed with most of what you have said, I think most people are anwserable /responsible to someone. Very few don't have someone in their life that doesn't depend on you one way or the other.

If you're married or have a partner, children, parents, grandparents, and other various relatives. If it's not family, maybe it's business and co-workers, etc. You know what I mean. We all have responsibilities that sometimes we don't even consciously think about.

The closest relationship I have is with my wife. I always have to take into consideration, what would she think? Or, what would she like, etc. I accept that and fine with it.

Re: OK!! I admit it!! I'm Selfish!! How about You??


the closest relationship i have is with my xbox

Re: OK!! I admit it!! I'm Selfish!! How about You??

Well, if that's what you enjoy, that's fine, too. You may feel differently about life as you get older though. Speaking personally, it has happened to me, and I'm not speaking about it in a religious sense either.

I wouldn't condemn you either, Chai Tea. Parenthood isn't for everyone, like Reyn said.

In my case, I had plenty of years to think only of myself. I didn't have my son until I was 40. At this age, parenthood isn't a matter of making sacrifices. Having my son adds to the richness of my life. I wouldn't want to go back to having only myself to think of. There is so much more now. And I find enough opportunities for time to myself. Like my A2K time, for instance.

When my son was very young, time to myself was hard to come by. But that didn't last long, and now I have a good companion. It's more fun taking him places with me than going alone.

Re: OK!! I admit it!! I'm Selfish!! How about You??


well i'm 43 in about a month and a half, but you never know, i really do enjoy my solitude, and the thought of in laws makes me insane, i mean okay, i can deal with my own dysfunctional family, now i'm gonna take on an extended one, and then if the other family is relatively normal, i'm gonna be bummed out thinking, hey what's wrong with my side we got it so wrong

In my situation, my wife and I are very private people. We don't socialize with friends or neighbors. We don't have a "need" to.

On my side, my father died quite some years ago, and my mother lives close by. On my wife's side, her mother died about 4 years ago, and her father moved back to England about 1 1/2 years ago. She has a brother in the area that she rarely sees.

The same for me. My sister lives in the northern part of BC, and I might see her a couple of times a year.

The only visitors that we get on a regular basis is our older daughter (every week), and the younger one about a couple of times a month. We visit at my mother's place semi-regularily.

So, as you can see, my wife and I are each other's support system and best friends, in addition to being spouses.

I look forward to growing old with her.

I don't thinkyou're selfish, I think you're smart!

I also think I'm the "unwind" girl you mentioned and let me be the first to tell you that you've got me all wrong. I'm neither saint nor martyr but a normal woman caught up in very unusual circumstances.

I too always said that I'd never have kids. I ended several relationships with promising men over the fact that I was not going to change my mind on this issue.

I had the career I'd always dreamed of and planned for and I was pretty successful. My life was great and I was happy.

That said, I've never been selfish in regard to things and prefer to live a rather spartan life - without a lot of people or things to distract me.

Having Mo move in upended my life. It sent me back to therapy and back on anti-depressents. If I hadn't built such an excellent staff over the years I probably would have lost my business as I didn't show up to work for almost three months.

Have you ever heard the saying "life is what happens when you're making other plans"?

For me it is very true.

I was raised to believe that when you make a commitment to a person or idea that you'd damn well better mean it. Meaning it doesn't make you noble or selfless, it makes you willing to try to do your best. It teaches you who you are.

I wouldn't go back for all of the tea in China.

The decisions that you've made aren't anywhere near selfish. Selfish is people who have kids who then don't bother to take care of them.

Hear hear, boomer. <high five>

I second Eva's "hear hear"!

<clap, clap, clap, clap!>

Chai-

Im not selfish but I don't mind you being.

Thank you Eva and Reyn.

I know just what Chai is dealing with. I was made to feel selfish about not having kids. I got it from everywhere - my family, his family, friends. Everyone thought I was infertile and bitter and lying about my true feelings. When I hit my 40s I thought I was home free from having to deal with it anymore.

Then all of the sudden I was raising a kid and I had a million questions - questions that were outside the norm - questions I desperately needed answers to - questions I couldn't ask without telling a bit about the how and why.

Then people acted like I was some kind of hero and I'm really just a confused middle aged woman trying to manage.

Without doubt I love Mo beyond reason but it took me a while to get there. Not to love him. To be willing to give up so much to have him here.

I don't want my story to make anyone feel bad about their decisions (well... unless they just abandoned their own kids and then I have a bone to pick). Especially grown up, well thought out and perfectly rational decisions like Chai has made.

My story is a story of heartbreak more than hope. I wish everyone could avoid that heartbreak.

Those words should be bronzed!

I didn't think I would have children and if I'd stayed in my first marriage I wouldn't have. My first husband was an alcoholic who hated children. There was no way in hell I was going to bring a child into a household as dysfunctional as the one I was raised in. We divorced after 12 childless years.

A few years later I married Mr B who LOVES babies and kids. My own biological clock was ticking at that point and we decided to have a baby. I still tend to be intolerant of wild, out of control kids in restaurants, probably because I was childless for so long. Another interesting phenomina is that prior to being a parent I was totally ambivalent about other people's babies. I would say something blase to co-workers arriving with their newborns for show-and-tell as I quickly left the room. Once I had children of my own I became a baby person extrodinaire wanting to hold and coo at any baby on the scene.

Wow, boomer's said it fantastically well.

Actually, the only reason I brought up children as an example was that is was the easiest one to think of.....But I was really thinking of life in general.

You know Reyn, I was almost going to delete that last sentence about the freedom of not being responsible to anyone, just didn't

Oh sure, I'm responsible for others.

If I hadn't been at a certain place at a certain time, and for my quick actions my husband would be dead today. I literally saved his life.
On other levels, I'm responsible to my pets, they are indoor pets, and if something were to happen to us suddenly, they'd be goners, locked in a house.
So, we have both been responsible enough to let our neighbors know to take an interest if they don't see us for a couple days, and we hadn't told them they're going away.

Well, I wasn't personally looking for affirmation on my life choices, but thanks anyway, for all who offered them.

I was sorta looking to flush out those who, like me, know that the only way to make a positive impact on the world is to FIRST realize that "If I don't take care of myself FIRST, and do what's best for ME, I won't be any good to anyone".

Having people who have, let's say in this case, children, come out and say, "it's fine if you don't have children" isn't really the point. Like I said, not looking for affirmation at all.... guess I went off track with the kid thing.

Maybe this will make it a little clearer.

A few years back, I thought I was loosing my mind, going crazy. I started getting counseling and was diagnosed with Panic Disorder.
It took almost 2 years of talk therapy for me to come to grips with the fact I would have to take medication. See, one of my fears was taking any sort of medication, I would get nervous over a Tylonal. During these 2 years, much work was done on exploring my family issues, which I could have told you from the beginning were horrendous, but I had to get past it....
Anyway, in order to evaluate me for medication, I of course had to go to a phychiatrist.
My visits were mostly to monitor the effects of the drugs, getting the right dosage. However, some therapy occured.
At that time, my mother was dying, and between visits with the pychiatrist, did die.
The fact that she was dying was actually a side comment I made to the doctor, only after she asked me, what has been going on since my last visit.
Then, in the same way, I noted she had died, and had made the decesion not to go to the funeral (which had already occured) because, quite frankly, there seemed no point.
She asked me about my fathers death, which had happened several years before, and how I'd felt.

Honestly? The only emotion I felt about his death was great relief that this person was finally out of my and everyone's life. The only reason I went to HIS funeral was because my mother was still alive, and, well, I just wasn't brave enough to tell her I didn't care.
I didn't go to his funeral as a comfort to my mother. I went to keep her off my back.

I told the doctor that what was bothering me was the fact that I DIDN'T feel bad at all about her being dead. I was NOT numb or anything, it just wasn't something to grieve over, and I would be lying if I said I cared about it.

I told her.....You know, this isn't something that I'm holding inside. I'm not going to, 20 years from now break down and grieve because my parents are dead.

Her response to me is what brought tears to my eyes.....

She told me....YOU ARE normal, you're just saying what some others feel inside, but won't say outloud. You just aren't pretending to "do the right thing"

BOY.....Really?....WHEW!

Now THAT was a watershed moment.

Since then, I don't worry much about how I'm SUPPOSED to feel.

The thing I really wanted to express in this thread is that just because you are "supposed" to want, love, work towards certain things, doesn't mean it's what you personally want.

It would be a nice place for like-minded people to drop in and say, yeah, I'm like that too.

Then, those who actually DO want what all of us are "SUPPOSED" to want can be the stranger in a strange land for a change, and observe.

bullshit sweetie..
You have stepped up to a plate that even the most open hearted person would have second guessed and shied away from.
Taking in someone elses kid , with out EVER knowing what the hell is going to happen to them, to that child, or to you , displays an amount of selflessness that most normal human beings have no concept of.
Dont , for one second , take that away from yourself.

wich is how most people end up being saints.. great moms.. outstanding citizens..

======================


I hope I can say this freely Chai, but I DO understand exactly where you are coming from.
And no, you are not selfish, you are damn smart.

I myself never wanted kids.

I didnt want Bean.

When i was pregnant , if I could have afforded it, I would have had an abortion.
Not only because I have TONS of medical problems and she was the 5th damn pregnancy I have had.. with all but one never making it out of the womb,

I didnt want a little person depending on me. This being the biggest reason beyond health problems..!

I am not ppsychologicaly capable of taking care of a child
I am not responsible enough
I dont want to learn how to BE responsible enough.
I dont want to hear crying
I dont want to change a shitty diaper
I am not required to have a baby
the world is too full

I wanted my money to go to me
I wanted my time to go to me and my husband
I wanted my husbands time to go to me
I wanted to be able to melt down as you are able to , randomly
I wanted to be able to do anything and everything freely and only be responsible for the bill later.
The only person I wanted to lean on me was my husband.
The reasons could go on and on. .


Bean was a total accident. And due to finances, she stayed.
Im not saying I regret that

( close your ears BECAUSE HERE it comes.. your favorite line. )

I cant imagine my life with out her.
There is a HUGE part of me that just cant function with out her now.
But there is an equally big side of me that says
Holy ****.. I have a little person now. I cant do this.. remember?

That isnt possible either.. jesus f-n christ shewolf.. why did you have a baby??

I think, what makes a woman a great woman isnt having a child. It is being smart enough to be able to analize herself in that way. To know that she is or isnt able/willing/capable/or has no DESIRE to have a child.

Just because you have a womb doesnt mean you are genetically required to use it.
There is more strength to be had in deciding NOT to have a child .
You have to battle society, your family, sometimes religion, everything and everyone thinks that just because you are a woman you should WANT a child. What a horrid battle that must be.
kudos dahhh-ling ;-)

I'd be interested in reading about what happened, if you ever want to write it. I will share with you a story as to what saved my life back in '95.


That's quite a profound statement. I believe that charity begins at home. Take care of those in your immediate family.


Agreed. I've never had a "career", for example. Work for me is a way to pay the bills.

Well-stated! I wish more would give that option deep thought and not feel pressured to have children.

You were my first out loud laugh of the day.

apropo of nothing.....

this morning on my way out, I stopped and talked "over the fence" to my neighbor for awhile...the one with the 1 and 2/3 year old daughter....We started talking about jelly fish. she said, ohhhhh, I can't wait!

This weekend I was walking on the greenbelt, and came across a young dad, his maye 4 year old(?) son, and a golden retriever pup that was probably chronological the same age as the boy, all big paws and panting grin, happy with the world.
Anyway, the little boy was not so happy, he wasn't crying or anything, just looked, well, pissed off. The dad was trying to, I don't know if comfort is the right word, since he wasn't hurt. When I was passing, he pointed at the puppy and said "He knocked me down"!!!!

Me: Oh yeah?
Puppy: Yeah! What? WOW, a LEAF!
Boy: Yeah, He knocked me down! On the Ground! He knocked me down!
Me: (mustering all my maternal ability).....Huh! You look OK to me.
Boy: Yeah......(muttering) I'm all right.
Puppy: All Right!