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Henry Neville - the "Real" Shakespeare?

 
 
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 04:31 pm
LONDON (Reuters) -

Two academics say they have discovered the "real" William Shakespeare, the never-before-identified Henry Neville, whipping up a tempest of debate among the Bard's followers who have had to defend him against a host of pretenders.

Academics Brenda James and Professor William Rubinstein have recorded their findings in a new book in which they make the case for Neville, a Tudor politician, diplomat and landowner whose life span matched that of Shakespeare almost exactly.

The authenticity of Shakespeare, author of dozens of sonnets and plays still performed today, has been argued over since the 19th century, with Francis Bacon, Christopher Marlowe and even Queen Elizabeth I among proposed alternatives.

James, a Briton, says she stumbled upon the new contender Neville while decoding the Dedication to Shakespeare's Sonnets, which led her to identify Neville as the author of the plays.

She spent the next seven years gathering evidence to prove her point. When she asked Rubinstein, of the University of Wales, to check her facts, he was sufficiently convinced to agree to advise on and co-author the book.

"I was an agnostic when I started," American-born Rubinstein told Reuters. "I am certainly not now. A bolt from the blue, that's the way I describe it."

James said a notebook written by Neville while locked in the Tower of London around 1602 contained detailed notes which ended up in "Henry VIII" first performed several years later.

His experience in the tower, where he faced execution for his part in a plot to overthrow the queen, would also explain the shift in 1601 from histories and comedies to the great "Shakespearean" tragedies.

He was learned, traveled around Europe and was a close friend of the Earl of Southampton to whom the Shakespeare sonnets are believed to be dedicated.

"I cannot see any point on which this theory falls down at the moment," James said.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,232 • Replies: 19
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Letty
 
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Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2005 08:01 am
My word, edgar. I am amazed, once again. Henry Neville? I wonder if he has a middle name. <smile>
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edgarblythe
 
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Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2005 09:07 am
I'm game for any theory, until it's disproven.
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Letty
 
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Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2005 09:36 am
As am I, edgar. Reckon we'll ever know in our life time?

Well, whoever wrote all that stuff, it is and always will be wonderful.

Are you a Shakespeare lover, Texas?
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2005 10:22 am
I love much of Shakespeare, but I have never liked As You Like It. Sure, there are some great quotes to be gleaned from it, but, I don't like the overall play.
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Letty
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2005 10:58 am
Well, I love so many of the soliloquies and sonnets, and I suppose, next to the Bible, he is the most oft quoted of anyone. Most of (whoever) his histories were taken from Hollinshed's Chronicles, so many are authenticated, with dramatic license of course. All this from memory, edgar; speaking of which, give me a quick refresher on As You Like It.
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edgarblythe
 
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Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2005 11:23 am
The plot is very simple: the resolution of the dramatic problem in the warped attitudes of two evil brothers toward good brothers, and related obstacles to marriage for several couples in the play (most notably Rosalind and Orlando) are easily overcome, and a happy ending is never in doubt. On one level, the play was clearly intended by Shakespeare as a simple, diverting amusement; several scenes in As You Like It are essentially skits made up of songs and joking banter. But on a somewhat deeper level, the play provides opportunities for its main characters to discuss a host of subjects (love, aging, the natural world, and death) from their particular points of view. At its center, As You Like It presents us with the respective worldviews of Jaques, a chronically melancholy pessimist preoccupied with the negative aspects of life, and Rosalind, the play's Christian heroine, who recognizes life's difficulties but holds fast to a positive attitude that is kind, playful, and, above all, wise. In the end, the enjoyment that we receive from the play's comedy is reinforced and validated by a humanistic Christian philosophy gently woven into the text by a benevolent Shakespeare


As I said, there are some great quotes, and here is one I do love:
Under the greenwood tree
Who loves to lie with me,
And turn his merry note
Unto the sweet bird's throat,
Come hither, come hither, come hither:
Here shall he see No enemy
But winter and rough weather.
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Letty
 
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Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2005 11:31 am
Wow! edgar. Beautiful synopsis. I have all of Shakespeare's plays, but have never read that one. Lovely quote, Texas.
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Letty
 
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Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2005 11:51 am
Not exactly my favorite, but one that makes me think. It has inspired many writers and poets:



Shakespeare
Queen Mab

In Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, Mercutio jests with Romeo, musing that Mab, the bringer of dreams, has visited his lovesick friend:

O, then, I see Queen Mab hath been with you.
She is the fairies' midwife, and she comes
In shape no bigger than an agate-stone (60)
On the fore-finger of an alderman,
Drawn with a team of little atomies
Athwart men's noses as they lie asleep;
Her wagon-spokes made of long spiders' legs,
The cover of the wings of grasshoppers, (65)
The traces of the smallest spider's web,
The collars of the moonshine's watery beams,
Her whip of cricket's bone, the lash of film,
Her wagoner a small grey-coated gnat,
Not so big as a round little worm (70)
Prick'd from the lazy finger of a maid;
Her chariot is an empty hazel-nut
Made by the joiner squirrel or old grub,
Time out o' mind the fairies' coachmakers.
And in this state she gallops night by night... (1.4.58-100)
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edgarblythe
 
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Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2005 01:28 pm
Wonderful. . .
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Letty
 
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Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2005 02:10 pm
You know, edgar. Every actor wanted the part of mercutio. It probably demanded more than any of the others.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2005 02:13 pm
I wanted to be Yorik, in keeping with my talent.
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Letty
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2005 03:28 pm
Laughing Did it ever occur to you, edgar. that Texas and Florida are discussing Shakespeare? Bet the Bushes (either of them) wouldn't know Yorik from yodling.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2005 04:11 pm
I think George Bush has never progressed to Dr Seuss.
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djjd62
 
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Reply Sat 15 Oct, 2005 12:24 pm
i think machiavelli is more their speed

and they've probably never read it, just heard the one principal

the end justifies the means Smile
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Acquiunk
 
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Reply Sat 15 Oct, 2005 12:58 pm
Henry Neville may well have been the author or a major contributor to Shakespeare's plays but Shakespeare is still Shakespeare. Analysis of the vocabulary of Shakespeare reveals that it is way above any other contemporary English author in terms of its size and breadth suggesting there were multiple individuals involved in the writing of plays attributed to him. Writing for the stage was not consider an appropriate activity for the aristocracy so if any were so inclined the work could not be published or produced under their name. This is where Shakespeare entered the picture. As a provincial, glovers son and a theater manager, he would have no such inhibitions or prohibitions. It is most likely that he was an editor redactor and minor play write on his own. He received or purchased full or partial plays from others and edited, rewrote, or redacted them for the contemporary stage. Contributors probably included the Earl of Oxford, Robert Green, possibly Francis Beacon, it now appears Robert Neville and many others. This is not to diminish his effort. His editorial hand insured a consistent, uniform. high quality product. No one at the time took this to be great literature. It was popular entertainment and theater attendance has a certain raffish if not disrespectable air about it.
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edgarblythe
 
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Reply Sat 15 Oct, 2005 01:32 pm
Sort of a Dumas, only better.
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Merry Andrew
 
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Reply Sat 15 Oct, 2005 01:51 pm
What I don't understand, edgar, is how, after writing that marvelous synopsis of As You Like It, you can still say you don't like the play. Your perfect understanding of it doesn't gibe well with a dislike for one S's most popular comedies.

Acquiunk, you're right, no doubt, that there's more than one hand at work in much of what is attributed to Shakespeare. (There are scholars who doubt that Willie of Stratford had anything to do with writing Macbeth aside from allowing his name to be used.) That said, the bulk of the poetry is undoubtedly Shakespeare's. Nobody would have been in a better position to know than his friend Ben Jonson and Jonson would never have worded his eulogy as he did if he's had reason to believe that Shakespeare was just a 'straw man.'

Most of these attempts to find a "true" author of Skakespeare's plays are undertaken by elitists who simply can't believe an upstart actor from the provinces could author so awesome a corpus of work. They forget that John Shakespeare, the father, was a gentleman who had been granted a coat of arms, not just a village glover; one who had served as mayor of Stratford-on-Avon and had fallen on hard times only shortly before William's taking off for London. William had a far above average education at the Stratford grammar school, where a more than nodding acquaintance with both Latin and ancient Greek were pre-requisites to graduation.

Personally, I'm a little weary of these rabid nay-sayers who keep coming up with alternate authors for the plays which, by and large, were the work of William Shakespeare.
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Steve 41oo
 
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Reply Sat 15 Oct, 2005 01:58 pm
you soppy old things

it was gary or more probably philip neville
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Merry Andrew
 
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Reply Sat 15 Oct, 2005 02:02 pm
It was the Queen herself, or her upstart nephew Jimmy, the Scot.
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