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Sun 9 Oct, 2005 12:02 am
I am doing a 400 point reporst on lord of the flies. Can someone please tell me if this is a good intro paragraph and a good thesis statement for it!!!! tell me what you think ASAP!
Have you ever wondered how we as humans would survive if for some reason were stranded on a deserted island? Would we have to learn how to survive or would our natural instinct for survival come out? After reading Lord of the Flies I realised a lot about the world that we live in and how our situational instincts effect our behaviors and morals. William Golding wrote the novel Lord of The Flies proving that without a civilized societal environment with rules, government, and an outline of what is right and what is wrong, man will eventually return to his savagery roots. Through the use of representations, both of characteristic and situational, Golding desribes how our nostalgic need for order, both societal and administrative, the existence of a military establishment, and the belief in a supernatural and/or a higher power can shape and even change mans moral behavior.
Re: HELP PLEASE!lotf
frustratedstudent wrote:I am doing a 400 point reporst on lord of the flies. Can someone please tell me if this is a good intro paragraph and a good thesis statement for it!!!! tell me what you think ASAP!
Try asking nicely & someone might just help!
A "please" is always a good way to end a sentence requesting help. :wink:
I would say your opening paragraph and thesis is dead wrong, if asked nicely.
Have you paid attention to the context of the novel?
It is a war.
The kids are being evacuated.
(And you speak of the civilizing aspect of a military?)
The nice ending with the nice officers landing, and commenting that they are a bit surprised the kids didn't manage better, is deeply, darkly, ironic. The nice officer is, himself, involved in a war every bit as primitive, if more mechanised, than the primeval battle the kids were engaged in.
As for religion, do you know who The Lord of the Flies is? Try googling Beelzebub. The religion the kids invent is referred back, again with deep irony, to the constructs (civilizing, as you see them, it seems) to the christian mythology itself...well, at least to its jewish roots....Beelzebub, the Lord of the Flies, being part of this very construct. The kids play out, in their microcosm, the christian mythos of christ and the devil, as they have been bloodily played out through the millenia.
The message of the book is far, far darker than you have understood, I believe.
It gives a microcosm, not of what society is like without the trappings and ornaments of civilization, but of what Golding is darkly painting it to be in its essence, despite these.
That's what I think, anyhoo.
Re: HELP PLEASE!lotf
msolga wrote:frustratedstudent wrote:I am doing a 400 point reporst on lord of the flies. Can someone please tell me if this is a good intro paragraph and a good thesis statement for it!!!! tell me what you think ASAP!
Try asking nicely & someone might just help!
A "please" is always a good way to end a sentence requesting help. :wink:
Sorry!!! i didnt realize! i didnt mean to be rude, honest!
I know you probably didn't! You sound like you're in a bit of a panic, actually ...
It's just that folk here get asked for help for all sorts of things, often & are generally good natured & generous about it. But some posters don't even say "thanks" after you've spent ages helping them. (this has happened to me.) And some are a bit demanding in how they ask ... that's all. I gets up your nose after sometimes!
I'd help (I'm a teacher), but I'm not a Literature teacher, sorry.
I think dlowan's advice was good. I hope you get some more input.
Good luck!
yes i have
"Have you paid attention to the context of the novel?"
I have! I know how dark the book is. I know it is about a war (evil vs. good; ralphvs. jack; and that golding wrote it in the time of war, but my teacher said to look deeper then the obvious. thats where i stand confused. i love the book so i thought it would be an easy "A" but she has proved me wrong.
"And you speak of the civilizing aspect of a military?)"
{"the existence of a military establishment"} I didnt mean for it to sound of a civilized nature. I just wanted to prove that the kids- jack - had formed a sort of military branch... even war like. ie Jack and the choir going from hunters to murderers .
[I]"As for religion, do you know who The Lord of the Flies is? Try googling Beelzebub."[/I][/b]
I know who he is... He is the basis of the title. devil. i know. i
I am sorry if i came across 1.)rude and 2.) that the children had built a civilized world there. i will change that. i meant that people are so dependant on society so drawn to order that when taken out of it everything changes: our instincts, beliefs, morality. ust everything that we once knew replaced by the need for survival. Also, power and abandonation change people.
I seriously appeciate the comment! I didnt care if i got raves or critism, both will help me. I thank you for your honesty it has help me greatly!
[quote="msolga"]I know you probably didn't! You sound like you're in a bit of a panic, actually ...
Yeah I am! The teacher doesnt like me so shes real hard on me and she makes me "look deeper" into the stories. I have been working, reading, writing, reserching this stupid paper for a week now (about 6 hours just today). it sucks bad. I am so frusrtated because all the reasearch that i have found supports my theory of the book, and she turned that one down. I am desperate!
What do you teach? thats my major. either math or english (the irony of it all)
I know you were not being rude, and you have missed my point.
This is the different from yours...
" i meant that people are so dependant on society so drawn to order that when taken out of it everything changes: our instincts, beliefs, morality. ust everything that we once knew replaced by the need for survival. Also, power and abandonation change people."
(It's "abandonment" by the way!)
I meant that in one sense, while part of Golding's theme is that removal from the structure of civilisation soon also removes civilised behaviour (a wonderful nodal point for this theme is when some of the boys, is it the choir?) are throwing stones around the little boy, JUST stopped from throwing them AT him by the rules they have been imbued with, rules that soon fail, another more deeply ironic theme is that the civilization from which the boys have fallen is just the same. It is engaged in a terribly destructive war, and is no better, in terms of savagery, than the world the boys build. It simply has better weapons and a better veneer.
Next, the question I always ask in these situations: When is your paper due? How much time have you got? (And don't say tomorrow!
)
Grrrr...damn new forum rules!
I attempted to edit my post to this:
I know you were not being rude, and you have missed my point.
You say:
" i meant that people are so dependant on society so drawn to order that when taken out of it everything changes: our instincts, beliefs, morality. ust everything that we once knew replaced by the need for survival. Also, power and abandonation change people."
(It's "abandonment" by the way! :wink: )
I meant that in one sense, while part of Golding's theme is that removal from the structure of civilisation soon also removes civilised behaviour (a wonderful nodal point for this theme is when some of the boys, is it the choir?) are throwing stones around the little boy, JUST stopped from throwing them AT him by the rules they have been imbued with, rules that soon fail, another more deeply ironic theme is that the civilization from which the boys have fallen is just the same. It is engaged in a terribly destructive war, and is no better, in terms of savagery, than the world the boys build. It simply has better weapons and a better veneer.
PS: Perhaps your teacher really likes you, and pushes you because s/he thinks you have a lot to give, btw!
What did you say in the rejected paper?
(It's "abandonment" by the way!)<~~~ lol.. thanks
and you have missed my point.
Okay, I understand what you are saying, which is brilliant by the way, but how would I word that into a thesis proving 3 points? I am between a rock and a hard place here. I understand the context of the writing, but I am not good at the writing reports aspect of Lit. and thesis statements, forget it. I am so frusterated you just dont know how much you are helping, thank you!
msolga wrote:Next, the question I always ask in these situations: When is your paper due? How much time have you got? (And don't say tomorrow!
)
its not due until tuesday and she assigned it last thursday. It isnt done not because of lack of trying and working, believe me this has been a none stop project for me, but more of a lack of understanding what it is she wants from me.
"Proving" 3 points?
Oy veh!!!!
You wouldn't!
You could, if you wish, comment on the dialectic in the book between the view of the necessity of civilisation vs the darker message of the impossibility of civilisation, if you wished....
Again...what was in yout first paper that was rejected?
What are the three themes in the book that most impressed and excited you?
Well, that's good!
It gives you a bit more room to try a few different approaches. The last student I tried to help (in my own area of expertise) had work due the very next day. He said it was his teacher was bad at her job! :wink:
PS: Perhaps your teacher really likes you, and pushes you because s/he thinks you have a lot to give, btw! NO! lol. I firmly believe she doesnt like me for some unexplained reason. Going into her class I was excited! I normally excell in English and writing. Enlish one was a breeze for me, i love it (I was even offered a publication and one of my short stories and 2 poems.) Yeah, that changed. English WAS what I wanted to teach, not anymore!
What did you say in the rejected paper?[/quote]
The thesis that she rejected???
So maybe she's just trying to get the very best out of you? That's quite possible!
"The thesis that she rejected???"
Yeppers
I have to go now, frustrated. Good luck!
dlowan wrote:"Proving" 3 points?
Yeah i know right! makes this whole expirence better!
You could, if you wish, comment on the dialectic in the book between the view of the necessity of civilisation vs the darker message of the impossibility of civilisation, if you wished....
Again...what was in yout first paper that was rejected?
I didnt have 3 points i had 2 (i could write 5 pages on and she insisted i couldnt so i had to extney on that)
1. what you said in the above but not so intelligently stated
2. and i think something about abandonment and what it can do on a person. I know it had something to do with morals and the effects of power
i tried to look for it but i guess i threw it away when she rejected it
What are the three themes in the book that most impressed and excited you?
1. society holds everyone together, and without order, our ideals, values, and the basics of right and wrong are lost resulting in the boys savagry (morals based on surroundings) environmental adaption
2. The fear of not knowing can have a robust force, which can make you more spiritual or through you into emotional distress
3. the war- good vs. evil democracy vs. tyranny, etc
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