Explain the existence of existence ?

@The Anointed,

The Anointed wrote:

God has manifested himself as this living universe, so that all could see and understand him.

I can't know that God exists because of my perception of this world. God might be in every atom but this would be unknowable

The Anointed wrote:

A tree falling in the forest makes no sound unless there is a created ear, sound is only created when the silent shock waves from the falling tree hit the created ear drum and are converted to electric pulses that are sent to the created brain where those silent waves are perceived as sound.

The sweet aroma of your gardens flowers does not exist unless there is a created nostril there, which can breathe in the scentless molecules which the created brain then perceives as A scent. Take away the created tongue, the created nerve ends, the created eyes, etcetera and there is nothing but the eternal energy which has neither beginning or end and which has become all that exists.

We have been here before

I agree with your comments on perception Re: sight, sound, smell, taste and touch, except where you use "created" I would use "evolved"

The Anointed wrote:

It has now been revealed that matter is no more than an illusion......
......(R. C. Henry, “The Mental Universe”; Nature 436:29, 2005)

We have been here before as well, I could accept that matter is not tangible, in fact I'm quite taken with the idea

1 Reply

@steve reid,

Quote:

I agree with your comments on perception Re: sight, sound, smell, taste and touch, except where you use "created" I would use "evolved"

I’m with you there mate, I too believe in creation through the process of evolution by design. I know that the first space craft has evolved from the wheel, and I know that there were millions upon millions of creations that flowed from the creation of the first wheel by man its creator, before the creator of the first wheel could even think of creating the space craft.

I know also that each of the billions of evolving creations leading up to the evolution of the first space craft, were simply expressions of the heights to which the mind of the creator of the wheel had itself evolved to with each of those creations.

I also know that the God [THE GREAT THOUGHT] who, over the eons of eternity, has evolved to become all that exists and has made himself manifest as the creation itself and that He is the same today as He was yesterday and will be into the everlasting. He is the only true constant in that He has been constantly evolving and will continue to evolve. The only mind that can cease to evolve, is the mind that has ceased to exist.

But I know also that he not a God who interferes in the affairs of man. He [THE LOGOS] sends his blessings of rain and produce on the wicked and righteous alike and He sends his disasters on the righteous and the wicked alike. It is the Most High intellect to have evolved within God [THE LIGHT OF MAN] who protects me and warns of any impending disasters.

See John 1. In the beginning was the WORD=LOGOS 'THE'GREAT THOUGHT' and the LOGOS was with God and was God, in Him was life and that life was [THE LIGHT OF MAN].

The root to the word “BRAHMAN” originally meant “SPEECH”, much the same as the “LOGOS” is said to mean ‘WORD.

Shabda OR SHABDA STANDS FOR ‘WORD’ MANIFESTED BY SOUND [VERBAL]
Bhartrhari speaks about the creative power of shabda, the manifold universe is a creation of Shabda Brahman

The Rig Veda states that Brahman extends as far as Vāc (R.V.X.114.8), and has hymns in praise of ‘SPEECH AS THE CREATOR.’

In Sanskrit the similar meaning is given in the use of the word 'vac.' Vac means word. But in Sanskrit teachings of the Sanatana Dharma, vac has many levels. Including where the word is first considered as being in the mind as ‘A THOUGHT,’ and not as the spoken word or speech.

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@steve reid,

Perhaps the definition of "faith" in Hebrews 11:
1-3 would help?
A large number of people in the gospels had difficulties with faith. Most Christians have similar difficulties.
The best answer is to continue to ask God to reveal Himself to you.

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@Neal2,

Quote:

Perhaps the definition of "faith" in Hebrews 11:
1-3 would help?
A large number of people in the gospels had difficulties with faith. Most Christians have similar difficulties.
The best answer is to continue to ask God to reveal Himself to you.

After God had declared that man should be Lord of all creatures by saying in Genesis 1; 28; I am putting you in charge of the fish, the birds, and all the wild animals. He then goes on to say in verse 29-30, I have provided all kinds of grain and all kinds of fruit for you to eat; but for all the wild animals and for all the birds I have provided grass and leafy plants for food.”

God made no mention of eating meat. Cain became a farmer and brought as his offering to God the fresh fruit and vegetables from his farm, which offering was rejected, while his younger brother Abel became a shepherd and brought as his offering a young tender lamb, which he slaughtered and choosing the best pieces he offered them up and the smoke of his offering was pleasing to God and accepted.

Hebrews 11, 4; It was faith that made Abel offer to God a better sacrifice than Cain's. Through his faith he won God's approval as a righteous man, because God himself approved of his gifts. By means of his faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.

Hebrews 12, 22; Instead, you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, with its thousands of angels. 23You have come to the joyful gathering of God's firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, who is the judge of all people, and to the spirits of good people made perfect. 24You have come to Jesus, who arranged the new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that promises much better things than does the blood of Abel.

How does the sprinkled blood of CHRIST do much better things than the blood of righteous Abel.

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@Neal2,

Neal2 wrote:

Perhaps the definition of "faith" in Hebrews 11:
1-3 would help?

Re: Hebrews 11:1, A fair assessment

Re: Hebrews 11:3, If I had faith then I suppose like all believers I would accept this, as I haven't got faith, I don't

Neal2 wrote:

The best answer is to continue to ask God to reveal Himself to you.

How do I communicate with God when I don't have faith that God exists

And how would God reveal himself to me when I can't perceive God with any of my senses

I still maintain that no one knows or can know that God exists. Those that say they know God exists, are either using a different definition of "know" than what is in the dictionary or they are deluding themselves

If a person needs faith to accept God exists, it follows that person doesn't know God exists, as

If a person did know God exists, they would not need faith

1 Reply

@The Anointed,

The Anointed wrote:

But I know also that he not a God who interferes in the affairs of man.

How could God killing millions of people in the OT not be construed as interfering in the affairs of man ?

I can't understand what you are trying to tell me with the rest of the post, sorry

1 Reply

@steve reid,

Quote:

I still maintain that no one knows or can know that God exists. Those that say they know God exists, are either using a different definition of "know" than what is in the dictionary or they are deluding themselves.

In the days of Paul, it was believed by faith alone, that all visible matter in the universe was built by the gathering together of smaller and invisible particles. Today we don’t need faith to believe this, we know this to be a fact,
Matter is but the gathering together of invisible molecules, created by the gathering together of invisible atoms, which themselves are created from the gathering of invisible sub-atomic particles that are formed from Photons or wave particles, which are not particles at all, although generally regarded as discrete stable elementary particles, having zero mass, no electric charge, yet carrying angular and linear momentum.

440 BC - Democritus and Leucippus suggested the idea of the atom, an indivisible particle that all matter is made of. To the ancient Greeks the word atom meant indivisible. It was used to describe the smallest indivisible piece of a matter. Atom was derived from the Greek word atomon or atomos meaning indestructible.

But even then, there were those people who never had eyes to see that which nature proved to be true and those blind people attempted to ridicule the scientific minds. Ask yourself Steve, how a one-ton tree can grow from a one-ounce seed.

A singularity is a region of space-time in which matter is crushed so closely together that the gravitational laws explained by general relativity break down. In a singularity, the volume of space is zero and its density is infinite. Scientists believe such a singularity exists at the core of a black hole, which occurs when a super-massive sun reaches the end of its life and implodes.

General relativity also demands such a singularity must exist at the beginning of an expanding universe. So I ask you Steve, do you believe that the singularity that must have existed at the beginning of our expanding universe, has become this entire universe and all that exists, and that the Supreme Personality of Godhead to this Universal body, is the Most-High to have developed/evolved within this body.

John 1; In the beginning was the WORD [THE GREAT THOUGHT] and the WORD was with God [did you see that Steve, 'the 'WORD' 'was WITH God] and yet the WORD was God.]

When 'YOU' were born, behind the veil of the flesh, in the innermost sanctuary of that body in which you, 'THE MIND' the controlling godhead to that body would later develop, Was all the gathered spirits of all your ancestors, human and pre-human.

And just as mankind developed/evolved within the bodies of our animal ancestors, so too, 'THE SON OF MAN' the Most-High and Supreme Personality of Godhead to develop within the universal body, is currently developing with the body of 'EVE' mankind.

The child that God told Eve that she would bear through great pain and suffering, which child would crush the head of Satan.

You are a triad being Steve, body, soul and mind, and the mind does not die the first death with the body, If the mind is to die, it will be in the second death.

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@steve reid,

Quote:

How could God killing millions of people in the OT not be construed as interfering in the affairs of man ?

Are you referring to [THE GREAT THOUGHT'] who is made manifest as this universal body or to the Most-High to have developed within that body.
See previous post.

Adam and Eve who were evolving in the spiritual realm were cast down from Paradise to the earth and given physical bodies of flesh, blood, bone and animal skin, after the destruction on earth, of the ruling body of the Most-High to have evolved on earth, the upright walking reptiles, the dinosaurs, whose spiritual godhead was cursed by God and also cast down to earth and whose earthly descendants now crawl in the dust.

From ‘The dictionary of all Scripture and Myths.’ The Kabbala describes four Adams, the two highest of which are celestial and spiritual.

The third Adam is the terrestrial Adam, made of ‘dust,’ and placed in the Garden of Eden. This Adam was an androgene . . . . . It had, when first created a glorious simulacrum, or light body, and answers to the Yetzeeratic World, ---- Ibid., p. 418.

The fourth Adam was the Third Adam as he was after the fall, when he was clothed with animal skin, flesh and nerves, etc. This answers to the lower Nephesh and Guff, i.e. body, united. He has the power of reproduction and continuance of species, and also answers to the Aseeyatic world, but in him is some of the light of all the preceding (Adams) ----- ibid., p. 418.

1 Reply

@The Anointed,

The Anointed wrote:

Ask yourself Steve, how a one-ton tree can grow from a one-ounce seed.

I don't know, I assume that like all life the seed absorbs and converts nutrients, growing according to the instructions encoded in its DNA

The Anointed wrote:

General relativity also demands such a singularity must exist at the beginning of an expanding universe. So I ask you Steve, do you believe that the singularity that must have existed at the beginning of our expanding universe, has become this entire universe and all that exists......

Yes

The Anointed wrote:

......and that the Supreme Personality of Godhead to this Universal body, is the Most-High to have developed/evolved within this body.

I don't believe that God the creator manifested himself as the universe

The Anointed wrote:

You are a triad being Steve, body, soul and mind, and the mind does not die the first death with the body, If the mind is to die, it will be in the second death.

We have been here before, last time there was a spirit, I assume the mind is the spirit
I believe I am twofold, body and mind, nothing more

The Anointed wrote:

Are you referring to [THE GREAT THOUGHT'] who is made manifest as this universal body or to the Most-High to have developed within that body.

I am referring to the Lord who ordered Moses to put The Sabbath Breaker to Death, Numbers 32-36, though I admit rereading this it doesn't say God it says Lord ?

The Anointed wrote:

God has manifested himself as this living universe, so that all could see and understand him.

So when you say open my eyes to see God, you don't mean I will literally see God the creator, you mean I will see the manifestation of God which is everything in the universe, the one ton tree, the birds, anything and everything ?.

Is this what you're meaning when you say you know God exists ?

1 Reply

@steve reid,

Quote:

I don't know, I assume that like all life the seed absorbs and converts nutrients, growing according to the instructions encoded in its DNA.

Have y0iu watched a tree burn and asked what part of that tree was being released into the atmosphere as flames, leaving only a few ounces of ash.

Quote:

I don't believe that God the creator manifested himself as the universe.

But you do believe that the singularity of origin has manifested itself as this universe and all within it.
You do believe according to the Big Bang theory, that this universe, began as an infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small ‘SINGULARITY’ which was spatially separated and spewed out, as an extremely hot liquid like plasma of electromagnetic energy in the trillions upon trillions of degrees which has manifested itself as this universe and all that exists, or don’t you.

Quote:

We have been here before, last time there was a spirit, I assume the mind is the spirit.

You assume correctly. The scriptures equate the ‘MIND’ with the ‘SPIRIT’, in one place it is said, “You must love God with all your heart=body, with all your MIND, and with all your soul:” In another place it is said, “You must love God with all your body, with all your SPIRIT and with all your soul.”

The flesh is of no avail, it is the mind that is the potential child of God, flesh and blood cannot inherit His kingdom.

Quote:

I believe I am twofold, body and mind, nothing more.

The body in which you, [The mind] are developing as the supreme head and controller of that body, is made up of the universal elements, which is activated by the soul, [Animating life force] to which all the spirit [gathered information] of all your ancestors, human and pre-human has been gathered in its evolution to become ‘WHO YOU ARE’, and that gathering of parental spirits, which is the evolving ‘SON OF MAN,’ dwells behind the veil of the flesh to the inner most sanctuary of its temporary earthly tabernacle or tent, which is your physical body, as it awaits the creation of its glorious temple of incorruptible Light. [THE SON OF MAN] who stands on the highest and final rung of the ladder of evolution in this period of universal activity.

When the body in which you [the mind] are being formed, dies, [This is the first death] and your body of “skin, flesh, muscle, blood, bone, brain matter Etcetera, Etcetera,” has returned to the universal elements from which it was created, all that remains, is a shadow or rather, a facsimile of YOU, the mind or spirit, that has been imprinted into the universal life force or soul, which returns to ‘THE GREAT THOUGHT,’ [The collective consciousness of all that exists] from which it will be resurrected in this cycle, or the next cycle of universal activity.

If there is no soul then you [The mind] die with the physical body when it dies.

What is that body that gave to you birth?
Is it nothing but elements taken from earth?
Or was it created from the spirits and souls
Of your ancestors who, are from times that are old?
Believe as you will, but remember this verse,
When your coffin is placed in the back of the hearse;
The reward that the mind must surely receive
Is that which the mind (Not in the hearse) believes....... By The Anointed

Quote:

I am referring to the Lord who ordered Moses to put The Sabbath Breaker to Death, Numbers 32-36, though I admit rereading this it doesn't say God it says Lord ?

Then you are referring to JHWH, which name in Hebrew means, ‘’I AM WHO I AM’’ a name too sacred to be spoken by the Hebrews and so, was changed to ‘’LORD.’’

’ I am who I am, may I never lose sight of the fact that I am ’Who I Am’ day and night. I’m not ‘Who I Was,’ nor ‘Who I Will Be,’ for ‘Who I Am’ is the name that my God gave to me. The only name in heaven and earth by which you can be saved.
SO get behind me you charlatan priests and you shams.
For I am true to my God, to my God ‘’WHO I AM.’'

Quote:

So when you say open my eyes to see God, you don't mean I will literally see God the creator, you mean I will see the manifestation of God which is everything in the universe, the one ton tree, the birds, anything and everything ?.

Is this what you're meaning when you say you know God exists ?

I know that the great singularity who is made manifest as this universe, is already in the process of calling all creation back to himself before creating for us a new heaven and a new earth.

The Big Crunch which follows every Big Bang.

“Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non-being, and again from non-being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all, the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, ‘SIX’ spokes representing ‘SIX’ forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

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@The Anointed,

CONTINUED ON FROM PRVIOUS Post.

“Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non-being, and again from non-being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all, the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, ‘SIX’ spokes representing ‘SIX’ forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

The days and nights of Brahma are called Manvantara, or the cycle of manifestation, ‘The Great Day,’ which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by ‘Pralaya,’ a dark period, which to our finite minds would seem as an eternity, or but a moment in time.

‘Manvantara,’ is a creative day as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis, ‘Pralaya,’ is the evening that proceeds the next creative day. The six periods of Creation and the seventh day of rest are referred to in the book of Genesis 2: 4; as the “GENERATIONS OF THE UNIVERSE.”

The English word “Generation,” is translated from the Hebrew “toledoth,” which is used in the Old Testament in every instance as ‘births,’ or ‘descendants,’ such as “These are the generations of Adam,” or “these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; it is written concerning the six days of creation; “These are the generations of the Universe or the heavens and earth, etc.” And the ‘Great Day’ in which the seven generations of the universe are eternally repeated, is the eternal cosmic period, or the eighth eternal day in which those who attain to perfection, are allowed to enter, where they shall be surrounded by great light and they shall experience eternal peace, while those who do not attain to perfection are cast back into the refining fires of the six physical cycles of endless rebirths that perpetually revolve within the eighth eternal cosmic cycle.

Enoch the righteous, wrote that God created an ‘EIGHTH’ day also, so that it should be the first after his works, and it is a day eternal with neither hours, days, weeks, months or years, for all time is stuck together in one aeon, etc, etc, and all who enter into the generation of the Light beings, are able to visit all those worlds that still exist in Space-Time, but not in our time.

A series of worlds following one upon the other-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it.

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@The Anointed,

The Anointed wrote:

Have y0iu watched a tree burn and asked what part of that tree was being released into the atmosphere as flames, leaving only a few ounces of ash.

I haven't, I would assume the molecules the tree is made from are being broken down and released into the atmosphere, the flames emitting heat and radiation which is generated from the consumption/breakdown of said molecules, but I don't really know

The Anointed wrote:

But you do believe that the singularity of origin has manifested itself as this universe and all within it.
You do believe according to the Big Bang theory, that this universe, began as an infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small ‘SINGULARITY’ which was spatially separated and spewed out, as an extremely hot liquid like plasma of electromagnetic energy in the trillions upon trillions of degrees which has manifested itself as this universe and all that exists, or don’t you.

Yes, that is what I presently believe

The Anointed wrote:

If there is no soul then you [The mind] die with the physical body when it dies.

That's nature, it is what I believe happens

The Anointed wrote:

The Big Crunch which follows every Big Bang.

“Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non-being, and again from non-being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws

A perpetual motion machine ?

1 Reply

@steve reid,

Sorry that I have been so long winded in responding to your previous post, but the wife and I had to go into the city for a while.

Quote:

A perpetual motion machine ?

And you are entitled to believe whatsoever you choose to believe, but can you explain what created your perpetual motion machine and how a lifeless unintelligent machine can create a butterfly? I assume that you do know the entire life cycle of the beautiful winged creature from the earth crawling caterpillar.

Many from our scientific community now believe that even though our experience tells us that our reality is made up of physical material things, and that our world is an independently existing objective one. The revelation that the universe is not an assembly of physical parts, suggested by Newtonian physics, and instead comes from a holistic entanglement of immaterial energy waves stems from the work of Albert Einstein, Max Planck and Werner Heisenberg, among others, such as Pioneering physicist Sir James Jeans, who wrote: “The stream of knowledge is heading toward a ‘’NON-MECHANICAL’’ reality; the universe begins to look more like ‘A GREAT THOUGHT’ than like a ‘’GREAT MECHINE’’’ Mind no longer appears to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter, we ought rather hail it as the creator and governor of the realm of matter. (R. C. Henry, “The Mental Universe”; Nature 436:29, 2005)

Our living, eternal evolving universe, perpetually oscillates between a state of activity and a state of inactivity [DAY AND NIGHT] forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being too non-being, and again from non-being to being, something that our ancient thinking ancestors had known thousands of years ago.

But if you choose to believe, that this living universe is no more that a perpetual motion machine, you are still left with the problem of explaining, ''From what was your perpetual motion machine created and by who and how was your apparent physical machine created.

1 Reply

@The Anointed,

The Anointed wrote:

Sorry that I have been so long winded in responding to your previous post, but the wife and I had to go into the city for a while.

No worries, Family and life come first

My apologies, I don't believe it possibe to build a perpetual motion machine. When I wrote "A perpetual motion machine ?" It was a question, the passage you wrote that it was referring to seems to be a perpetual motion machine, I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear.

The Anointed wrote:

Our living, eternal evolving universe, perpetually oscillates between a state of activity and a state of inactivity [DAY AND NIGHT] forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being too non-being, and again from non-being to being, something that our ancient thinking ancestors had known thousands of years ago.

Here it is again, using words like "perpetually oscillates" gives me the idea that this is a perpetual motion machine

I navigate my way through life using reason and logic, I often get things wrong or make wrong assumptions which lead me astray.

For over 50 years I assumed the world was in colour, then I came to understand that colour is a perception that only exists in the mind, I know you understand this. The point here is I can follow a chain starting with non coloured radiation --> strike detectors on the retina --> generate chemical reactions --> generate electrical signals --> travel up the optic nerve --> from which the brain creates the colour I perceive. Using logic and reasoning I can join the dots in an unbroken chain and come up with something that makes sense. When it comes to God, I have the possibility of God existing and I believe I exist, but I can't join the dots from God to me or me to God without at some point having to rely on faith, faith in God exists or faith that God has manifested himself into this world, it is too much for me to accept, I can't cross a bridge that isn't there.

I didn't understand where you were going with the burning tree ?

Your writings do give me food for thought, thankyou

My computer is going in for repair soon so I may be absent for a time myself

steve

1 Reply

@steve reid,

Quote:

For over 50 years I assumed the world was in colour, then I came to understand that colour is a perception that only exists in the mind,

As is the sounds that you hear, the aroma’s that you smell, the different fjavors that you taste, etc, etc, all are merely perception that only exists in the mind,

Quote:

I didn't understand where you were going with the burning tree ?

It was to reveal what the one-ounce seed gathered to itself to become a one-ton tree was the atoms in the soil, which atoms were released as fire,

Rub two sticks together and eventually they will become so hot that the atoms from which those sticks were created will become so excited they will begin to jump around and be seen as fire, which is a bunch of hot particles [atoms or chunks of atoms.] More specifically: their electrons are sucking up energy and jumping up and down the energy levels giving off photons and because we are burning wood, we're talking mostly about Carbon atoms, Oxygen atoms and Nitrogen atoms. The invisible non-physical atoms from which the tree was created are returned back into the environment to become something else.

Quote:

My computer is going in for repair soon so I may be absent for a time myself

You will be missed. Don't stay away too long.

1 Reply

@The Anointed,

The Anointed wrote:

As is the sounds that you hear, the aroma’s that you smell, the different fjavors that you taste, etc, etc, all are merely perception that only exists in the mind,

Yes, I think once you understand one, the others come easier, and

Thanks for the explanation Re: the burning tree

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Explain the existence of existence ?

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