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Where Will It End?

 
 
Reply Mon 20 Feb, 2023 09:58 am
The conflict in Ukraine, where will it end? If the United States did blow up the Nordstream gas pipeline to Germany, what does this mean for US relations with both Germany and Russia? Do you believe the US instigated this horrible war or did the Russians seize on an opportunity? Will we be engulfed in a worldwide conflict?
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Mon 20 Feb, 2023 10:13 am
@philbutler,
The Russians blew it up.

Anything else is Kremlin propaganda.

The Russians started this war, it had nothing to do with America.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -4  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2023 05:11 am
@philbutler,
Hi Phil, the crew here all parrot the national US propaganda—the Russians blew up their own pipeline…

Obviously that’s nonsensical.

Sy Hersh was correct; the US blew the pipeline.

Germany and the rest of Europe are aware, but afraid to confront the US.

0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2023 05:13 am
During WW2, prior to Pearl Harbor ,American Nazis like Lindburgh and Ford were openly supportive of Hitler.

Today American Nazis support Putin.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -4  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2023 05:15 am
Putin is fighting Nazis in Ukraine.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2023 05:50 am
America Is In Over Its Head

Thomas Meaney wrote:
The greatest blunder President Vladimir Putin may have made so far in Ukraine is giving the West the impression that Russia could lose the war. The early Russian strike on Kyiv stumbled and failed. The Russian behemoth seemed not nearly as formidable as it had been made out to be. The war suddenly appeared as a face-off between a mass of disenchanted Russian incompetents and supercharged, savvy Ukrainian patriots.

Such expectations naturally ratcheted up Ukrainian war aims. President Volodymyr Zelensky was once a member of the peace-deal camp in Ukraine. “Security guarantees and neutrality, non-nuclear status of our state. We are ready to go for it,” he declared one month into the conflict. Now he calls for complete victory: the reconquering of every inch of Russian-occupied territory, including Crimea. Polls indicate that Ukrainians will settle for nothing less. As battles rage across Donetsk and Luhansk, Ukraine’s leaders and some of their Western backers are already dreaming of Nuremberg-style trials of Mr. Putin and his inner circle in Moscow.

The trouble is that Ukraine has only one surefire way of accomplishing this feat in the near term: direct NATO involvement in the war. Only the full, Desert Storm style of deployment of NATO and U.S. troops and weaponry could bring about a comprehensive Ukrainian victory in a short period of time. (Never mind that such a deployment would most likely shorten the odds of one of the grimmer prospects of the war: The more Russia loses, the more it is likely to resort to nuclear weapons.)

Absent NATO involvement, the Ukrainian Army can hold the line and regain ground, as it has done in Kharkiv and Kherson, but complete victory is very nearly impossible. If Russia can hardly advance a few hundred yards a day in Bakhmut at a cost of 50 to 70 men, since the Ukrainians are so well entrenched, would Ukrainians be able to advance any better against equally well-entrenched Russians in the whole area between Russia and the eastern side of the Dnipro delta, including the Azov Sea coastline and the isthmus leading to Crimea? What has been a meat grinder in one direction is likely to be a meat grinder in the other.

Moreover, Russia has nearly switched its state onto a war economy setting, while the United States has yet to meet the war production needs of its foreign partners. The war has already used up 13 years’ worth of Stinger antiaircraft missile production and five years’ worth of Javelin missiles, while the United States has a $19 billion backlog of arms delivery to Taiwan. Western news reports have focused on the Russian men avoiding Mr. Putin’s draft orders, but the Kremlin still has plenty of troops to draw on, even after its call-up of 300,000 soldiers last September.

The debate about sending heavy war materials to Ukraine — which has consumed the German press in particular — is in this sense beside the point. It is not clear when all of the Leopard 1 and 2 and M1 Abrams tanks promised by NATO will be operational. Ukraine has requested 300 to 500 tanks, and NATO has promised only about 200.

That Mr. Zelensky has staked so much of his diplomacy on these armament shipments makes sense: He needs to communicate to the Kremlin that Ukraine is prepared for a long, slogging conflict. But in terms of battle-ready material for the next six months, very little of the promised bounty will be deployable. If Mr. Zelensky wants to complete his self-image as Winston Churchill sooner rather than later, he will want to hasten the day when he can toast NATO’s — which is to say, America’s — entry into the conflict.

The problem for Kyiv is that — public assurances aside — Washington has no interest in directly entering the war. Gen. Mark Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has already voiced his view that total victory for either Russia or Ukraine is unachievable in the near term. President Biden and his national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, have been adamant about keeping the United States from directly entering the conflict. The American public has shown no appetite for direct involvement, either. The United States may even have an interest in keeping the fighting going as the war reduces Russia’s ability to operate elsewhere in the world, increases the value of American energy exports and serves as a convenient dress rehearsal for the rallying of allies and coordination of economic warfare against Beijing.

Less noticed is that the Kremlin’s war aims may have — out of necessity — been scaled back. Apparently reconciled to its inability to effect regime change in Kyiv and capture much more of Ukraine’s territory, Moscow now seems mostly focused on maintaining its positions in Luhansk and Donetsk and securing a land bridge to Crimea. These are territories that even in the best of circumstances would be difficult for Ukraine to reincorporate.

As it stands today, Ukraine’s economic future appears viable even without the territories currently occupied by Russia. Ukraine has not been turned into a landlocked country and it remains in control of seven of the eight oblasts with the highest G.D.P. per capita. Ukraine would risk jeopardizing this position in a counteroffensive. Paradoxically, continued fighting also serves some Russian interests: It allows Moscow more chances to pummel Ukraine into being a de facto buffer state, making it an ever less attractive candidate for NATO and European Union membership.

The historian Stephen Kotkin recently argued that Ukrainians may be better off defining victory as accession to the European Union rather than a complete recapture of all Ukrainian territory. And yet, except for countries that were neutral during the Cold War, each historical case of E.U. accession has been preceded by membership in NATO, which since the 1990s has acted as a ratings agency in Europe, guaranteeing countries as safe for investment. This fact is hardly lost on the Ukrainian population: Polls (which have mostly excluded Luhansk and Donetsk since 2014) show that interest in the country’s joining NATO appears to have jumped since the start of the conflict.

Only Washington ultimately has the power to decide how much of Ukraine it wants to bring under its umbrella. The actual official reluctance to include Ukraine in NATO has rarely been clearer, while the public embrace of Kyiv has never been more florid. In the meantime, European leaders may soon find themselves in the unenviable position of convincing Ukrainians that access to the common market and a European Marshall Fund is a reasonable exchange for “complete victory.”

nyt
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2023 07:18 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Putin is fighting Nazis in Ukraine.
The Nazis left Ukraine after the Second Battle of Kiev in December 1943.
Lash
 
  -4  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2023 11:34 am
@Walter Hinteler,
A lot of people in Ukraine still love to throw out that Nazi salute and wear jewelry and tattoos with swastikas.

We call them Nazis.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2023 11:47 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
We call them Nazis.
Yes, those, who don't know what "Nazi" means.
Nazi is a short word for a supporter or member of the NSDAP. (Members of the SPD [Social Democratic Party] were called "Sozi".)

In American usage, the abbreviation Nazi is found much more often than in the country of origin and is also used to describe the politics, ideology and warfare of the time.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2023 12:12 pm
Quote:
A lot of people in Ukraine still love to throw out that Nazi salute and wear jewelry and tattoos with swastikas.

So do a lot of people in the USA. Would that justify an invasion by another country if killing Nazis were its stated intention? Zelensky's a Jew and he was elected in a landslide with nearly 75% of the vote.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2023 01:29 pm
@hightor,
Of course, OP could also be asked what she thinks of the million-dollar loan from Russia for France's Front National (which changed its name to Rassemblement National in 2018) - which only came about after party leader Marie Le Pen met with Putin.
Or ask her opinion about that high-ranking FPÖ politicians flew to Moscow in 2016 to sign a friendship treaty with Putin's party.

So, on the one hand, the Russian leadership supports right-wing extremists and, on the other hand, tries to justify the invasion of a neighbouring state with the need for "denazification" and ending an alleged genocide of the Russian-speaking population.

By claiming that there is a "gang of drug addicts and neo-Nazis" in the government in Ukraine, Russian President Putin served the images that have also been painted by Russian media with a wide reach in recent years. This is intended to evoke memories of the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union and to unsettle Western governments, especially the German government.

The political parties in Ukraine that can be classified as extreme right-wing - "Freedom" (Svoboda), "Right Sector" (Pravyj Sektor) and "National Corps" - have no relevance. In the last election, they together got only 2.15 per cent of the vote.


Well, Russian media are among the important cues for the far-right scene in Austria and Germany. And therefore OP's reactions are actually already known to me.
However, experts' opinions differ as to whether the members of the Azov Regiment are neo-Nazis or nationalists.

However, experts' opinions differ as to whether the members of the Azov Regiment are neo-Nazis or nationalists.

I think that the fact that relatively many members of Azov obviously (literally) have a right-wing extremist and neo-Nazi background is no reason to want to destroy an entire nation.

Lash
 
  -4  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2023 08:38 pm
@hightor,
The US installed Zelensky and pay him handsomely to assume his role in our proxy war. I prefer we’d have saved a little money and had merely a 60% ‘victory.’
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -4  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2023 08:39 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
The OP is Phil Butler.
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  2  
Reply Sun 5 Mar, 2023 01:32 pm
The Crimean peninsula will be liberated by the Ukrainians because it's easy to cut off supplies and difficult for the Russians to defend. That's not the case with Eastern Ukraine, which borders on Russia. I suspect that area will be subject to intense fighting for a long time, which will devastate the area. Any negotiations to peace will probably involve the Eastern part of Ukraine. I suspect the Russian people will become tired of the war as it grinds down their economy and soldiers, and the people will grow tired of the war as the Americans grew tired of the Vietnam war.
0 Replies
 
PoliteMight
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 5 Mar, 2023 02:26 pm
@philbutler,
You want to end this "war". All the military commanders just have to agree
that Russia does not surrender and they just want to kick the people in the Kremlin / KGB out of the nation and have them stand trail and imprisoned.
Russia just have to start a civil-war and march on the captial ( whatever ) and arrest all those "Wig-wearing pouncy idiots".

It is dumb. Since 2001-202X now, USSR popularity has been at a high. I went to college with those people. I love those people. I would marry and be happy to look like those people. This war is backwards, and is a complete joke.

A bomb/missile went off and accidentally killed somebody in Poland. Military killing elderly people, Prisoners being released. I mean seriously this is even more worst then the US building a wall, or separating parents from children.


......................................

ROLTF Germany is a joke and being exploited by Zionist-parasites. Germany lost it's High-school requirement for students to gain skills via working and paying vendors to hire students. Now it is optional.

Russia reality is that they are just setting it up to put Russia back into the proverty stricken state it was after the fall of the wall.

Russia ( All Eastern European peoples ) problems is admitting Bolsheviks was wrong, killing the royal family was wrong, and the brutal murder of the prophet and savior of the crown Rasputin was wrong.

Rasputin was a hero, and has been depicted as a sorcerer in "Anastasia" the movie and sadly "Kingsman III" which was terrible and just pathetic. He literally was no different then any other prophet mentioned in religion. He was the savior of the crown.

.........................................

These E$#$E##$E screwed up and United States burnt money on this just like Afganistan/Iraq, Korean/Vietnam, and so many other bs.
0 Replies
 
 

 
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