Is it ethical to give transplants to unvaccinated?

If their weight makes surgery more dangerous with an increased risk of of a bad resolution, and that's what weight does in most cases, why shouldn't they be not be treated?

When people are denied treatment over political affiliation, race, gender, religion etc, get all up in the air. But in that obesity is a treatable medical condition, and a condition that makes certain medical treatments like transplants more likely to have unfavorable outcomes, yes, the obese need to get out of line for certain procedures.

As there should have been. You cant equate not getting a shot for corona with Mickey Mantle. The evidence is piling up more and more the shot people are the ones doing the most damage. There was this huge deal about Aaron Rodgers getting a positive nose test while 95% of NFL players testing positive had corona shots.

What about people whose kidneys failed because they consumed too much salt? Should they get a kidney transpalnt?

If they can't moderate their use of salt, should they be transplant candidates? Now pretend that pretend salt is pretend heroin. Or pretend Russian Roulette.

So you say. Put a little facts and sources on that pudding.

My understanding from this ... Which might be after this occurred... Is you can be on the transplant list for liver .... If it is due to over drinking and also lung if you are a smoker, however the expectation is that you have quit and need to not have drunk\smoked within so long prior to the transplant.

Perhaps if you get the shot prior to lung transplant it would follow suit with other such situations?

You can be on the list, but you have have dry before surgery.

Mickey was not only not dry, he was moved up the line. He admitted it and there were threats of sanctions with the hospital and Doctors involved.

https://www.nytimes.com/1995/06/11/weekinreview/the-nation-transplants-morality-and-mickey.html

So sorry for the loss of your friend. I lost one a few years before Covid. He was fighting leukemia. The drugs he took for leukemia caused him to develop a lung fungus. What he took for the fungus made his leukemia worse. His last two years was just a spiral of waiting to get a handle on one without letting the other one get out of hand.

I'm not against treating the ill. I am against using extreme procedures on patients who can't be trusted to use simple health health procedures, who show a tendency to embrace quackery and uninformed medical advice.

It would one thing if lungs were a dime a dozen and there more than there were patients, but this is just not the reality.

Bottom line, this is pretty much how I come down on the thing as well.
If I was one of the doctors or administrators on the committee or whatever of people that decide how to triage the queue listing order of who receives those rare donated organs, I would surely not put people at the front of the line who had clearly not been taking care of the rest of their body by making choices like not getting vaccinated.

Seems to me to be very reasonable.

This seems reasonable but how do you determine this? How do you determine whether a patient can be trusted or not?

In realty you could get someone saying yep I quit drugs and will not use them in the future...how do you determine the difference between someone who is sincere about this or not?

What if in the case of covid the person gets his shots prior to the lung transplant says they learned their lesson and will follow future protocol. Then a month after his transplant and CDC says required for all to get another booster and this guy decides not to..

On the other hand there could be the opposite some overweight smoked drinker that did not get vaccinated has a turn of heart and realizes he has been a mess...turns into a health freak ...is turned down for a transplant because of his psst history...

In theory this premise makes sense but in reality How do you make this determination?

Not just now but historically, transplant patients have had to agree to medical requirements to maximize the chance of a transplant success including vaccinations and lifestyle requirements. Covid hasn't changed this. A good friend who is undergoing immunotherapy and radiation for lung cancer was required to get flu and Covid vaccines before beginning treatment as she became immunocompromised when she started.

You make a great point about “how does one make those determinations?”
But the fact remains there has to be some process to triage for who is the most needy (and deserving, I guess) of organs. I mean, they’re not just “first come first serve”.

Well you’re saying that there are processes in place to sort out who gets organs and in what order.
I believe that certainly to be the case.
But I also believe that issues like this ( people trying to get transplants without being vaccinated for Covid) are really happening, and not fake news.

Also, vaccination for Covid is made a little different from those others, simply because of the issue some have made of it.

It's a political issue but not a medical one. Part of the treatment agreement for a transplant includes things the recipient is required to do to maximize success and it is not one or two things. I think in a lot of cases, doctors take their patients' word for it that they meet the requirements so I doubt it's too hard to fake the requirements but my point is that requiring vaccines before getting a transplant has been normal for a long time and requiring it for Covid is not politically motivated, it is in line with standard medical practice.

I wasn't saying that requiring proof of Covid vaccination was politically motivated. I'm trying to say that much of the currently escalated activity (like people faking vaccinations) concerning Covid makes it a slightly different consideration for people making decisions about things like emergency room capacity and organ transplant queues.

Nurse Charged With Creating Fake Vaccine Card for Relative With 'Anti-Vaccination Beliefs'

A nurse will be the first person in South Carolina to face federal criminal charges after making a fake vaccine card for her relative, according to the Associated Press.

Tammy McDonald, a registered nurse and the director of nursing at a health center in Columbia, has pleaded not guilty to the charges. She is accused of making a false vaccination card for a relative who holds "anti-vaccination beliefs" and then lying to government officials when asked about it. She was indicted by a federal grand jury on the case in November.

According to The State, creating a fraudulent government-issued vaccine card could result in a maximum of fifteen years in prison. Lying to a federal agent also carries a maximum five-year sentence. Due to McDonald's clean track record, it is unlikely that she will carry these maximum sentences, potentially settling for probation instead.

McDonald's place of work and the relative that she made the card for have not been released to the public.

https://www.newsweek.com/nurse-charged-creating-fake-vaccine-card-relative-anti-vaccination-beliefs-1655591

Proposal that unvaccinated have to pay for Covid care:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/12/07/illinois-unvaccinated-hospital-patients-covid/

I don't know if it's perfect or not, but it's a step in the right direction.