England is primarily responsible for bringing slavery to the US.

@maxdancona,

So what?

0 Replies

@hightor,

a traitor wrote:

oralloy wrote:
Max was posting about the UK's horrible history regarding slavery, and leftist posters started saying that it was no big deal considering the history of slavery throughout the world.

This does not honestly describe what occurred in the original discussion.

Yes it does.

a traitor wrote:

No one, liberal or otherwise, said that slavery was "no big deal".

The only liberals in the thread are conservative posters. They certainly didn't say it.

But a progressive did say this:
"They appear to have been a relatively minor player, considering the history of slavery."

a traitor wrote:

RealMusic wrote:
What I see is Max asserting a false misleading narrative.

That happens with disappointing regularity.

No it doesn't. You are lying about Max.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

The British people in British Colonies (this includes the US and Australia) saw indigenous people as subhuman. The decimation of the indeginous populations in the British Empire the 19th were truly barbaric in both nature and scope.

Spain had laws protecting indigenous populations starting in the 16th century. Spain is not without fault, but if you compare the genocide in former British Colonies like the US and Australia with the assimilation in Spanish colonies like Mexico and El Salvador, there is no equivalence.

The White people in the US in the 18th and 19th century, the people in power and the people forming White Supremacists groups were of British descent and stated that their goal is to preserve "Anglo-Saxon culture".

My point is that England is directly responsible for White Supremacy in the US. And that the former colonies of other former colonial powers have a different experience.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

okay... and... so what?

1 Reply

@Mame,

It is curious how progressives are often so accepting of atrocities.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

No. It's over. It's too late for recriminations. Acknowledge, accept, apologize and move on.

Back in the day, women had to fight for the right to vote, to attend universities, to read newspapers, to keep their own money... children were abused in mines and as chimney sweeps, etc., so does this come down to MEN ARE OPPRESSIVE? It was the way it was. It changed. End of story. It's important for each of us to learn from the past and to keep improving, but there is absolutely no point in castigating this generation or previous generations for what occurred prior which is what I think Max is trying to do, without success, I might add. His fixation on the UK borders on the absurd. Which was the point I was trying to make in the other thread. They were not the only ones doing that, and that they stopped is to be lauded. China is one of the worst slave aggressors on the planet today, but there are others - many, many others. We learned, they didn't and they also don't see anything wrong with it. So Max can just knock it off. It makes you wonder what his ethnicity is and what abuses he may have suffered.

2 Replies

@Mame,

Mame wrote:

there is absolutely no point in castigating this generation or previous generations for what occurred prior which is what I think Max is trying to do,

I think that isn't what he is trying to do.

I think he is responding in kind to izzythepush's deranged attacks against the US.

Mame wrote:

His fixation on the UK borders on the absurd.

It is appropriate if I am correct about his motivation.

Mame wrote:

So Max can just knock it off.

I prefer that he continue.

0 Replies

@Mame,

Quote:

there is absolutely no point in castigating this generation or previous generations for what occurred prior

This thread intersects with two other recent topics.

1) There is a call to teach about systematic racism in the present and to not "whitewash" the brutal crimes of history. This is the narrative behind the argument over education and "critical race theory". The specific claim is that conservatives want to avoid laying blame in the worst parts of history.

2) There are complaints that White people can shoot protestors without fear of prosecution and that Black people would be jailed or shot if they did the same thing. This narrative involves a discussion of what it means to be White and how we got there.

If we are going to intelligently discuss "White Supremacy" then we need to discuss what "White means", how it has been defined historically, and how we got here.

Historically in the US, White has meant Anglo-Saxon.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Quote:

(liberals) are making the argument that the British Empire is not responsible for slavery because there was slavery in pre-colonial Africa.

Since we liberals are clearly not making that argument, Who are you arguing with?

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

This is not a history class. You made your point. What of it? We should be asking ourselves how to improve relations, attitudes, etc., instead of focussing on the past.

0 Replies

@Real Music,

Real Music wrote:

Quote:
(liberals) are making the argument that the British Empire is not responsible for slavery because there was slavery in pre-colonial Africa.

Since we liberals are clearly not making that argument, Who are you arguing with?

If we are all in agreement, then this should be a short thread. Just say "I agree" (or just don't reply) and we can move on.

I generally only respond to threads that I think are worthy of discussion. If there is nothing to discuss on this topic, then we are spending a lot of time not discussing it.

2 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

If we are all in agreement, then this should be a short thread. Just say "I agree" (or just don't reply) and we can move on.

I

maxdancona wrote:

f there is nothing to discuss on this topic, then we are spending a lot of time not discussing it.

What a load of twaddle. There's nothing to discuss. This was just your forum to advance your narrative.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

Quote:

If we are all in agreement, then this should be a short thread.

The point is we are not in agreement with the narrative you are trying to push about liberals.

Quote:

Just say "I agree" (or just don't reply) and we can move on.

1. That's just it.
2. I don't agree with your false narrative about what you claim is a liberal view.

Quote:

I generally only respond to threads that I think are worthy of discussion.

So, your conclusion is since your narrative of what you claim to be the views of liberals turns out to be misleading and false, that it's no longer worthy of discussion.

Quote:

If there is nothing to discuss on this topic, then we are spending a lot of time not discussing it.

1. Okay I will not bother you any further on this thread, unless you give me a reason to make additional postings.
2. By your request, I will move on.

1 Reply

@Real Music,

Ok Real Music.

1. You agree with me about England and Slavery.

2. You disagree with me about liberals. I believe that liberals in the US have gone crazy. I am fine if you disagree.

3. There is an awful lot of discussion from people who say there is nothing to discuss. I find that funny. People don't have to respond to this thread if they don't feel it is a topic worthy of discussion. Of course, I post my opinions; anyone is free to engage or not as they see fit.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Quote:

I believe that liberals in the US have gone crazy.

Since I consider myself to be a liberal, I can only imagine what your opinion is of me.

Quote:

I am fine if you disagree.

Thank you.

Quote:

People don't have to respond to this thread if they don't feel it is a topic worthy of discussion.

Yet many of us feel that it is worthy and entertaining to challenge you when you post false misleading narratives.

Quote:

Of course, I post my opinions; anyone is free to engage or not as they see fit.

1. Thank you for giving us all permission to engage your thread.
2. That is mighty kind of you.

1 Reply

@Real Music,

You are not a liberal. Liberals value the Second Amendment.

Max does not post false or misleading narratives.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Quote:

Liberals value the Second Amendment.

Sure we do, it's part of USAmerican history. That doesn't mean that technical improvements to firearms over the past two hundred years and today's vastly different social conditions haven't changed aspects of gun ownership which were unforeseen by the framers of the U.S. Constitution, however.

Quote:

Max does not post false or misleading narratives.

Actually he does. I've noticed it quite a few times, especially in long-running exchanges. He'll take one tangential remark out of context, misinterpret it, and then use it to attack your argument even after his mistake has been explained to him. He's quick to set up straw men. I find myself constantly having to requote things I've already said because he either gets them wrong or misstates them. I'm not certain that he does it on purpose, however. But I think he can be intellectually sloppy at times.

1 Reply

Q nonsense on A2K. Never thought it would happen here.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Spain had laws protecting indigenous populations starting in the 16th century. Spain is not without fault, but if you compare the genocide in former British Colonies like the US and Australia with the assimilation in Spanish colonies like Mexico and El Salvador, there is no equivalence.

The discussion of Spain's behaviour in their (former) colonies is going on since five centuries. (Actually recently quite a lot.)

Your opinion is similar to that of VOX, the extreme right, populist Spanish political party.

My thesis in Non-European history was related to "Spain in the News World".
I remember, of course, the Laws of Burgos.
And what Bartolome de Las Casas wrote.

I've been in Acoma Pueblo a couple of times.
One wall of the walls around the cemetery is pierced by a hole, to allow spirits of the deceased an exit into the afterlife it is said "officially".
Locals will tell you that the hole was done to give the souls of the enslaved opportunity to get back to th pueblo, even if was just the cemetery. (When the Spanish succeeded finally to conquer the pueblo in 1599, they killed 800 Acoma Indians and punished the survivors by cutting off the right foot of every adult male. Most of the other survivors were sold into slavery.)

1 Reply

@hightor,

You and Oralloy are arguing about me. I don't know if I have the right to comment or not.

Hightor, I think you are full of crap. But let's make a deal...

If you make a point, and I get your position wrong correct me. If you state your position clearly, I will accept it as stated. If you correct uour position I will accept it corrected.

In my defense, I think I already do this. Where we run into problems is when you try to dither, making contradictory arguments.

Point out your position clearly and unequivocally, and I will accept your position as stated.

2 Replies

England is primarily responsible for bringing slavery to the US.

Quick Links

My Account

able2know