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Is "it's" parents" often used regarding people in British English?

 
 
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2021 09:18 am
For Brits, a "dependant" is a person who is dependent on someone else. (For example, a child is dependent on its parents. Therefore, a child is a dependant on its parents.)

Is "it's" parents" often used regarding people in British English?

Thanks!
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Type: Question • Score: 4 • Views: 320 • Replies: 13
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2021 11:25 am
@tanguatlay,
tanguatlay wrote:

For Brits, a "dependant" is a person who is dependent on someone else. (For example, a child is dependent on its parents. Therefore, a child is a dependant on its parents.)

Is "it's" parents" often used regarding people in British English?

Thanks!


It's...with the apostraphe...is not a possessive form. It's is the contraction of "it is" or "it was."

The possessive form, which is what you are looking for in your question, is its. (Without the apostrophe.)

tanguatlay
 
  2  
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2021 11:10 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

tanguatlay wrote:

For Brits, a "dependant" is a person who is dependent on someone else. (For example, a child is dependent on its parents. Therefore, a child is a dependant on its parents.)

Is "it's" parents" often used regarding people in British English?

Thanks!


It's...with the apostraphe...is not a possessive form. It's is the contraction of "it is" or "it was."

The possessive form, which is what you are looking for in your question, is its. (Without the apostrophe.


Thanks, Frank!
But you haven't explained if "its" is often used with regard to people?
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tanguatlay
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2021 11:21 pm
"Its parents" refers to the child's parents.

Is "its parents" a common usage among native speakers to refer to a person's parents? In the above sentence, "its" refers to the child's parents.

Thanks!
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Aug, 2021 02:37 am
@tanguatlay,
tanguatlay wrote:


"Its parents" refers to the child's parents.

Is "its parents" a common usage among native speakers to refer to a person's parents? In the above sentence, "its" refers to the child's parents.

Thanks!


The "its" in "its parents" does NOT refer to the child's parents...it refers to the word "child."

Yes, one would normally refer to a child as "it" in the abstract. If we knew the gender of the child in the context, most would use the correct gender pronoun instead, but the sentence would be constructed differently from those in your OP.

I doubt one would ever write, "A child is dependent on his parents" or "A child is dependent on her parents." (One might use the cumbersome, "A child is dependent on his/her parents"), but in the abstract, the use of "its" is correct.

"George is dependent on his parents" is fine; "Penelope is dependent on her parents" is also. So is "A child is dependent on its parents."

maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sat 28 Aug, 2021 11:57 am
@Frank Apisa,
I never noticed that before.

A child is an object. You would say, "every child should sleep in its own crib".

A student is a person. You would never say "every student should sit at its own desk".

As a native speaker, I don't understand the difference. But there clearly is one.

Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Aug, 2021 12:27 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:


I never noticed that before.

A child is an object. You would say, "every child should sleep in its own crib".

A student is a person. You would never say "every student should sit at its own desk".

As a native speaker, I don't understand the difference. But there clearly is one.


New stuff comin' 'round every day.

(I sure hope "British English" treats this the same as "American English!)
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Aug, 2021 08:58 am
@tanguatlay,
It that context it’s accurate if not a little outdated. Today it’s more acceptable to use they/their if the gender is unknown, not it/its.

However, I remember an RE class when I was at school where the infant Jesus is referred to as it from a passage in the King James Bible.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Aug, 2021 09:20 am
@Frank Apisa,
It’s roots are in a patriarchal society, children were literally the father’s possessions, and his wife too for that matter.

The student teacher relationship is much later, our oldest schools only date back to the early 1500s and the language reflects that.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 29 Aug, 2021 11:47 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

It’s roots are in a patriarchal society, children were literally the father’s possessions, and his wife too for that matter.

The student teacher relationship is much later, our oldest schools only date back to the early 1500s and the language reflects that.


I think that this only happened in English.

In Spanish I know that children were always considered humans. There is a special way in the language to mark that you are referring to a human being regardless of gender, and that is used for children and students alike.

I wonder if there is any other culture that considered children to be objects? I think it is just English.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Aug, 2021 01:29 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
I think that this only happened in English.
Not just in English but in all Germanic languages - child is gender neutral.

Wikipedia: It and one as gender-neutral pronouns
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sun 29 Aug, 2021 01:51 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Interesting Walter. However, there is a difference between "impersonal pronouns" and "gender-neutral" pronouns.

In English...
- "Child" uses an impersonal pronoun. You would say "give the child its toy".
- "Student uses personal pronouns. You would say "give the student his/her/their pencil".

Is there the same distinction between personal/impersonal pronouns in German? This has nothing to do with gender.

Your link points out that children are treated as objects where as most nouns relating the humans are treated as people ( a fact which Izzy ascribes to the patriarchic nature of the English culture).

My question is whether there is an analogous exception in German.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Aug, 2021 02:02 pm
@maxdancona,
We generally have three genders in German. "It" is.a personal pronoun in German.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Aug, 2021 02:48 pm
@izzythepush,
I remember from English classes long ago that if the pronoun was indeterminate, you would use the masculine form, so the child is dependent on his parents. I think using their is more in usage now. Interestingly Wikipedia as a whole writeup on this.

Quote:
It and one as gender-neutral pronouns
Further information: It (pronoun)
Whereas "he" and "she" are used for entities treated as people (including any entities that are being anthropomorphized), the pronoun "it" is normally used for entities not regarded as persons, though the use of "he" or "she" is optional for non-human animals of known sex[25] (and obligatory for animals referred to by a proper name[13]). Quirk et al. give the following example, illustrating use of both "it" and "her" to refer to a bird:

The robin builds its nest in a well-chosen position ... and, after the eggs have hatched, the mother bird feeds her young there for several weeks.[25]
The pronoun "it" can also be used of children in some circumstances, for instance when the sex is indefinite or when the writer has no emotional connection to the child, as in a scientific context.[25] Quirk et al. give the following example:

A child learns to speak the language of its environment.[25]
According to The Handbook of Non-Sexist Writing, it is sometimes the "obvious" choice for children.[26] Examples given include:

To society, a baby's sex is second in importance to its health.
but also the more colloquial

When the new baby comes, it's going to sleep in Lil's room.


Quote:
Generic he and she

Further information: He (pronoun) and She (pronoun).
Forms of the pronoun he were used for both males and females during the Middle English and Modern English periods. "There was rather an extended period of time in the history of the English language when the choice of a supposedly masculine personal pronoun (him) said nothing about the gender or sex of the referent."[28] An early example of prescribing the use of he to refer to a person of unknown gender is Anne Fisher's 1745 grammar book A New Grammar.[29] Older editions of Fowler also took this view.[30]

The customer brought his purchases to the cashier for checkout.
In a supermarket, a customer can buy anything he needs.
When a customer argues, always agree with him.
This may be compared to usage of the word man for humans in general (although that was the original sense of the word "man" in the Germanic languages, much as the Latin word for "human in general", homo, came to mean "male human"—which was vir, in Latin—in most of the Romance languages).

"All men are created equal."
"Man cannot live by bread alone."
While the use, in formal English, of he, him or his as a gender-neutral pronoun has traditionally been considered grammatically correct,[31] such use may also be considered to be a violation of gender agreement.[32]:48

The generic he has increasingly been a source of controversy, as it appears to reflect a bias towards men and a male-centric society, and against women.[33] The 19th and 20th centuries saw an upsurge in consciousness and advocacy of gender equality, and this has led in particular to preferences for gender-neutral language. The usage of generic he has declined in favor of other alternatives.
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