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Chinese engineering projects, Water works

 
 
Mon 5 Jul, 2021 12:16 am
https://youtu.be/Wn5QsSNxFXs

Country seemingly run by engineers (The West is run by lawyers and bankers).

 
mommabear
 
  -2  
Mon 5 Jul, 2021 01:31 am
The Chinese project described appears similar in scope to the NAWAPA project that the Army Corps of Engineers wanted to start in the early 70s but was prevented by "green" activists.
farmerman
 
  3  
Mon 5 Jul, 2021 05:14 am
@mommabear,
a significant number of chinese mega projects just fail, like the Gorge's dam or the sea level canal. They try to stifle mistakes wheeas in the west, they ultimately celebrate them so they dont happen again, When I worked over there in the E, many buildings (like out preent Miami sebacle) would come crashing down an thered be no coverage at all. kinda like the russians where incompetence is accepted,(except in China incompetence is punished but quietly.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Mon 5 Jul, 2021 05:45 am
@mommabear,
Quote:
...but was prevented by "green" activists.



It was opposed by people in the growing environmental movement, but it was prevented by an economy still suffering from military spending in the Vietnam war, and inconveniently, by Canada.

Quote:
(...)

The trouble is that for most of our history, we have seen hardware as the quick fix, as the simplest solution to our water problems. Laying pipe and pouring concrete is, in many ways, a lot simpler — and a lot more politically attractive — than changing human behavior with rules and incentives. But large new infrastructure projects have never been the easy answers they seem to be, and they’re even less so now. We know, from years of research and experience, that we tend to underestimate their costs and overestimate their benefits: The Danish economic geographer Bent Flyvbjerg reports that 9 out of 10 so-called megaprojects are over budget, and most are behind schedule. (China’s South-North Water Diversion project is both.) Because megaprojects take so long to build, they are also especially vulnerable to “black swan events” — rare but consequential events such as natural disasters and stock-market crashes.

And climate change isn’t just altering the size of our water supplies. It’s making them less predictable, and more subject to weather extremes. In the future, the technology we use to deliver our water will have to function in a wider range of conditions — as an engineer might say, it will need more tolerance. Large, fixed pieces of water-moving and water-storing infrastructure don’t have a lot of tolerance. To count on them for drought relief is to play an increasingly risky game of chicken with the black swan.

Technology most certainly has a place in our water future. The dams and pipelines that fueled the growth of Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Denver, and Phoenix are still with us, and they’re not going anywhere soon. Desalination plants, though expensive, may eventually be needed to boost supplies of fresh water in coastal cities. Stormwater capture and water recycling technologies are in use and will probably expand. But Gleick, Famiglietti, and others argue that the cheapest, fastest, and most dependable response to a water crisis is to do more with less water — with the help of technology and without. This past summer, after Gov. Brown imposed mandatory restrictions on the state’s urban water districts, residential water use dropped by more than 30% compared to 2013, exceeding the state’s 25% reduction goal.

“I think the strategy is conservation and efficiency first, because it’s cheap, because it’s easy, and there’s still so much we can do to reduce both agricultural and urban use,” says Famiglietti. “With pipelines, there’s this sort of fantasy, this hope, that we can continue our lavish water lifestyle, and I don’t think we can. We can’t.”

buzzfeed
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Mon 5 Jul, 2021 06:00 am
@mommabear,
mommabear wrote:
Country seemingly run by engineers (The West is run by lawyers and bankers).
Well, other countries need to finance their projects, don't neglect cultural and natural heritage, don't affect with their projects the resources of neighbouring countries ... and have citzens with rights.
Mame
 
  3  
Mon 5 Jul, 2021 11:41 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I had never heard of that project so had to look it up. It was an appalling idea.

Wikipedia:

"The engineering of the project and the creation of a large number of new reservoirs — many of them in designated wilderness areas — would have destroyed vast areas of wildlife habitat in Canada and the American West and would have required the relocation of hundreds of thousands of people — including the entire city of Prince George, British Columbia.[1]

A number of federally designated Wild and Scenic Rivers in Idaho and Montana would be submerged under reservoirs, including the Salmon, Lochsa, Clearwater, Yellowstone and Big Hole.[1] The amount of electricity required to pump the water over the Rockies would require the construction of as many as six nuclear power plants.[1] Significant negative consequences were also predicted for Pacific salmon runs in the many Alaskan and Canadian rivers that would be dammed and diverted, reducing their flows
.

Luna Leopold, a conservationist and professor of hydrology at the University of California, Berkeley said of NAWAPA, "The environmental damage that would be caused by that damned thing can't even be described. It would cause as much harm as all of the dam-building we have done in a hundred years."[1]"
farmerman
 
  2  
Tue 6 Jul, 2021 09:05 pm
@Mame,
Interetingly, hydro projects are becoming the "coal fired power plnts "of this century. Much tlk is going on regarding "freeing" the Colorado and olumbia
Mame
 
  1  
Tue 6 Jul, 2021 10:47 pm
@farmerman,
And what consequences would the 'freeing" of those do? I don't know, but sometimes you can't undo what you've done. Sometimes it's too late.
0 Replies
 
 

 
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