Article Usage - Correct or no?

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I responded to someone on another forum where someone claimed native English speakers don't make errors, rather any perceived error (from a non-native speaker) is simply a feature of a dialect that they aren't familiar with. I kindly pointed out the errors in that very post which he took graciously. I softened the blow by stating when I'm not paying attention I write like a slob as to not make it personal. Two people afterwards started picking apart one of my corrections in a rather patronizing way. I'm curious for more opinions as a result. I've asked one person so far without pointing out what I consider to be the error and they sniffed out the same error in question. See what you find and under the text I will tell you what the perceived error is. Thank you!

"As a guy who learned linguistics off the internet, I can 100% assure you they are not making mistakes. Languages have different dialectics, and the one you know may not be the one they speak. If you spoke English and went to Portugal to learn Portuguese, you are going to have some trouble talking to a person from Brazil, even though they speak the same language. Even English has dialects, though not to the point of say, Spanish. So in short, they aren't making the mistakes, its just they speak slightly different then you."

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So in short, they aren't making the mistakes, it's just they speak slightly different than you.

The controversial correction is that I crossed out the "the." Is this not an unnecessary use of the article? The other person I asked made the following correction -

So in short, they aren't making any mistakes, it's just they speak slightly different than you.

What say you?

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Type: Question • Score: 4 • Views: 485 • Replies: 16

[+3] - Mame - 05/27/2021[quote="maxdancona"] Being from Boston, which is well known as the center of correct English and the example of how English should be spoken...[/quote] HA HA HA HA HA...

I would agree with you.

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@Loth94,

Bullshit!

I speak two languages. English is my native language. I speak Spanish fluently. And.... I am a grammar nerd.

I have spent a lot of time studying Spanish grammar academically. I can refer to the grammar rules. However, if someone who is a native speaker breaks my understanding of the rules, they are correct and I am wrong. This happens from time to time where I will tell a native speaker "well, the textbook says I should use the subjunctive case because the rule is..." and they respond, "that's not how we speak". If they are academics I might try to figure out their rule, or I just accept what they say and learn from it.

I would never argue grammar with a native speaker of the language. That is an idiotic thing to do. Language belongs the people who speak it as their first language.

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@Loth94,

Speak is a verb, you need to use an adverb, “they speak slightly differently than you.

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@maxdancona,

Just to clarify, this is not my text. I am a native English speaker correcting another native English speaker.

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@izzythepush,

Does the "the" in question read natural to you? Do you find the correction warranted?

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@izzythepush,

Actually, the word "different" can be used as an adverb in many American dialects.

This is confirmed by the American heritage dictionary. The phrase "Think different" is grammatically correct.

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@Loth94,

No it doesn’t sound natural, any sounds better.

We have plenty of dialects in English, very few people can understand Geordie first off.

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There is a difference between typos and dialect. In general especially if I'm talking with my thumbs I may make a mistake that on second reading is incorrect to my own self. I donut mind faxing this mistakes of someone corrects me.

Being from Boston, which is well known as the center of correct English and the example of how English should be spoken, I am still willing to accept how other people speak. Why should it bother me that people now use "data" as a singular noun or respond that they are "doing good" when I inquire on their well-being.

Arguing over how people speak in common language is silly.

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@maxdancona,

I agree with you. I pointed out the mistakes in this post because of the irony of saying natives don't make mistakes within a text with multiple errors. A few of the errors I called out can't be attributed to dialect and could also be spoken errors; the unnecessary article, the incorrect usage of the conditional, and confusing then and than. So I'm aware some of my corrections are a bit nitpicky, but considering the context of why I was pointing out the errors, I believe they are warranted. The two people picking apart my corrections were not OP. I came here primarily for clarity on the "the" correction.

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@Loth94,

The difference between a typo and a difference in dialect is that with a typo (or misspeak) the speaker recognizes their error.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Being from Boston, which is well known as the center of correct English and the example of how English should be spoken...

HA HA HA HA HA

maxdancona wrote:

I am still willing to accept how other people speak.

Oh, how BIG of you!

To the OP: I disagree with Max about if a native speaker says it, it's correct. Not necessarily. I taught ESL for years and I always told them not to trust a native speaker. There are grammatical, punctuation and word usage errors everywhere including, sadly, newspapers.

My grandchildren are not being taught English grammar in school (what?!), but since they are in French Immersion, thankfully they will get it there.

I can't tell you how many errors I have read in my husband's fourth year Geology class papers!

Language does change, but not quickly enough to not sound like an uneducated person when you use colloquial language when you shouldn't (as in a job interview).

Her and him did NOT go to the store. Neither did her and I. Her didn't actually go anywhere. It's such an easy fix but some people just don't care that they sound like some backwoods illiterate.

It tells me that if you don't care what you sound like, what else don't you care about? Would your math be wrong, too?

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I read that as: .... the mistakes ( you are referring to) ...

Much ado about nothing, me thinks.

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@Mame,

I am curious if you speak any language fluently other than English. It is one thing to be a ESL teacher. It is another thing altogether to learn a second language yourself.

There are certain mistakes that native speakers would never make. I have never heard anyone say "Her go to the store.". This is something we learn very early.

I have heard native speakers say "Elli and me went to the store". It strikes me as funny that gets corrected by teachers and parents, which leads to teens saying equally wrong things like "They yelled at Elli and I". It is overcompensation that makes things worse.

I know your "math be wrong" was meant as a dig, but one of my grammatical pet peeves is the incorrect use of mathematical terms in common English language. The word "exponentially" is a mathematical term that refers to a very specific type of growth of a function. In common English it just means something got big, often in cases that have nothing to do with exponents.

I suppose I should follow my own advice and accept it, but in this case it really does confuse mathematical terms and makes it more difficult when students encounter mathematical or scientific terms in mathematical or scientific contexts.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

I know your "math be wrong" was meant as a dig...

Actually, it was not meant as a dig. I don't know anything about your math skills.

My daughter's Quebecois French exchange student used the term "I'm obliged" all the time. When I told her English speakers don't really use this phrase for "I need to" or "I must", she was shocked. Subtle differences.

On a street in Bogota, I used the term "Acabo de comer" to a restaurant hustler. He replied, "Oh, ya comi" - so I learned a new way to say "I just ate". Love languages and all the ins and outs of them.

In ESL class, the biggest problem students had was prepositions: close by, close to, close up, close down, etc. And the sounds of "ough" - some of this can only be learned by memorization.

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@Mame,

Yeah, I am a former Physics professor, software engineer (working with big data and matrix transformations) and poker player... math is a pretty big part of my life. I thought you would know that after all we have been through together.

In Spanish you use the subjunctive case quite a bit more than you do in English. Many times I have asked someone (in Spanish) "why are you using the subjuctive case there?". They will respond "what is the subjective case?". I will explain to them how they changed the verb form... and they will say "oh... I don't know why, it is just correct".

A little while ago I was helping someone who is learning English. Referring to a sentence I just said she asked "is that a phrasal verb?". I responded "what the hell is a phrasal verb?".

Apparently we use a whole lot of phrasal verbs in English. I never knew what they were until I googled it. Native speakers don't generally think about grammatical rules. We just use them instinctively.

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@PUNKEY,

Except technically, there are no specific mistakes being referred to. OP mentioned people confusing dialect characteristics as mistakes. So if you wanted to fill in the blanks as you have here, it would look more like

They aren't making (what you assume to be) are mistakes.

In other words, it would be better to just drop the the, or say any mistakes, as we're talking about mistakes in the general sense.

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