Critical thinking skills: Who here has them?

I do not accept your claim that "facts can be misused". A fact is a fact no matter how it is being used. If you are pointing out that facts can be misrepresented, then they aren't facts. If you are pointing out that facts can be cherry-picked... then you are correct. But that doesn't change the validity of the individual facts. If you are fact-based, you look at all of the facts as facts.

The real question is: Is political ideology more important than the facts?

If your political narrative is the most important thing, then you will not want the facts that contradict your narrative to be discussed. A political narrative speaks to your personal world-view and your opinions. It isn't correct or incorrect by itself. With a political narrative you can find facts that support it and counter-facts to contradict it.

I don't think it is a good thing to reject facts that are valid because they don't fit your political narrative. If this is what you mean by "facts being misused", then I definition don't agree with you.

Yes, Brad Raffensperger is a pertect example. As was Al Franken.

I am discussing this with you, which means I am addressing the liberal ideological bubble. When I have a discussion with Oralloy, I push just as hard on the conservative ideological bubble.

There are two primary ideological bubbles in the US. I am challenging both of you to be able to think critically and to consider that points from the other side of the partisan divide sometimes have validity.

We are at a point where political ideology is more important than facts.

WTF?

WHO are YOU to say no one but YOU can think critically??

FTFOH.

Franken was brought down with facts from his erstwhile allies, not the opposition.


Gee, thanks a lot, you arch, condescending know-it-all. When I discuss anything with you, I am addressing your own personal ideological bubble of self-satisfied egocentrism. If you think either I or oralloy will be taking your advice to heart, you're a bigger fool than I imagined.

The point of this thread was to find examples where the other side of our partisan divide had valid points. It is my belief that questioning your own beliefs and listening to opposing points of view is a good thing; both for an individual understanding and for society at large.

There seems to be a real opposition to this idea, primarily from the left (at least here).

I am still waiting for someone from the left to participate sincerely in the exercise.

Again, Max, you REFUSE to understand what critical thinking actually IS.

I'm waiting for you to understand that concept, take it to heart and apply it's principles.

This is why I try never to read any of this preening self-satisfied member's self-congratulatory clap-trap. He's not as dense as the big 'o', but is just as stubbornly devoted to his hastily formed conclusions and refuses to ever let go. That's why he calls you a liberal, as well as several other people liberal, because (as laughable as this might be) he truly believes he has risen above it all. All hail the deep thinker. I predict as soon as I post this, he will be raving about how I (and my merry bunch of 'cool kids') follow him around and disturb his wonderfully crafted smarmy "look at glorious me" diatribes. It hasn't yet occurred to him that he doesn't command respect from others because he never respects others, why would any well adjusted person beg for his approval??? Takes all kinds............Hey gang, lets all gather at his feet so we can take one of his tests...sure, sure, you will never amount to anything until the big man gives you his rarely shared stamp of approval. Phooey.

Hi Glitterbag, I am so glad you made it. This is a little awkward, but here we are again. You have followed me onto another thread I started to explain how you never pay attention to me. I always enjoy our little dance. Several times now you have told me you would never respond to me again. You seem to always come back.

We are missing Izzy and RealMusic, then the gang will all be here again.

While you are here, the topic of the thread is whether you can accept valid points made by the opposing party (as a way of putting facts over political narrative).

Do you have anything to say on topic? Or are we just flirting.

Why does anybody have to accept that the opposition has valid points?? If they HAD valid points, they wouldn't BE opposed!!

Because life doesn't work with absolutes. There is always more than one side to a story. Most issues have competing interests each of which impacts real people.

Most solutions involve compromise, and when people with different perspectives decide to listen to each other a d work together, often the result is good for everyone.

Instead eeveryone lines up in their ideological sides and insists they are completely right and the other side is completely wrong. No one listens, no one learns and everyone just ends up yelling at each other.


Now ideology is more important that facts and winning is more important than solving problems.

Please don't challenge the deep thinker of all things important. He and he alone can see thru all of our pitiful opinions and beliefs. He and he alone is the well adjusted one who understands human relationship, and alas, although we women may get totally creeped out by his 'out loud' musings and over-sharing, that doth only makeith us dull prudes sans imagination, forthwith. Oh yea, oh yea, oh yea shalt thou bend deeply at the knee before that shimmering lamp of wisdom and worldly mystic who can but only chuckle softly over our small tiny life experiences for all things can be contained in a bubble of something that he shall explain when the time is right and we are deserving of the enlightenment.

In other words, think of him as the 'Cliff-notes' for living well and enjoyment and political correctness. You will save yourself a lot of unnecessary thinking...gives you a headache.

Are you really that naïve??

Pick me, I know, I know!!!!!!