1
   

The Imperial President

 
 
longly1
 
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2021 08:51 pm
Biden announced the other night that he had ordered the states to do his bidding to administer the Covid vaccine. Who does he think he is? Biden is not a king. He doesn't have the power to tell the states to do anything; the state governments don't work for him. They work for the people of their state. Trump didn't have that power, and neither does Biden. It is just a power grab, and you all wonder why some people consider Democrats Communist because you act like it. Biden can set up a federal program and run it however he wants to, but the people are not his slaves and have the right to run their states as they see fit.

The founder had an excellent understanding of human nature and the danger of contracted power, perhaps because many were slaver owners and had personally witnessed abuses of power. They didn't want anyone or any government to have too much power. So, they designed a system to prevent the concentration of power and the rise of an authoritarian state. As long as we follow the Constitution and keep power dispersed, we will always be free.
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2021 03:58 am
@longly1,
That's a common complaint against the modern presidency. (Although there are reasons Congress has given more power to the office than was envisioned in the Colonial Era.)


Quote:
Within the executive branch itself, the president has broad powers to manage national affairs and the priorities of the government. The president can issue rules, regulations, and instructions called executive orders, which have the binding force of law upon federal agencies but do not require approval of the United States Congress. Executive orders are subject to judicial review and interpretation.

wikipedia

I take it you're not opposed to vaccination in general and are arguing on a platform of "preserving freedom". I don't think the president directing a national effort like this significantly encroaches on "freedom" in any meaningful way. Living in a country without the fear of a pandemic increases our freedom.

Quote:
Biden can set up a federal program and run it however he wants to...


But Congress gave the federal government control over the distribution of vaccines. It's difficult to see how this executive power leads to Communism. Such an extreme change in the economic and political foundations of the USA would be pretty obvious and it's not something a president could simply command. If a president really wanted to assume authoritarian control he'd have to instigate some sort of insurrection.

longly1
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2021 09:33 pm
@hightor,
Did I give the impression that I did not support Covid vaccinations? If I did, that is wrong. I want everyone to be vaccinated as soon as possible. That is not the point; the point is the federal government does not rule the states. The people of the state rule their individual state. That is a very important concept in federalism; we depend on federalism to defend us from a potentially tyrannical government. If Hitler had not been able to gain total political power in Germany, he would never have been able to commit the atrocities he did. As long as we keep faith in the wisdom of the founders and not deviate from the Safeguards they gave us, we will always be free.
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2021 10:20 pm
@longly1,
You should had told Trump about that nicety when he imposed his Napoleonic will on the States.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2021 04:09 am
@longly1,
Quote:
Did I give the impression that I did not support Covid vaccinations?

I said, "I take it you're not opposed to vaccination in general..."

Quote:
The people of the state rule their individual state.


The Constitution delineates the responsibilities of both the federal and the state governments. Congress authorizes presidents to assume particular powers in an emergency but that doesn't mean he has unlimited power to do anything he wishes. And, as I pointed out, executive orders are subject to judicial review and interpretation.

Quote:
If Hitler had not been able to gain total political power in Germany, he would never have been able to commit the atrocities he did.

The only way a political figure like Hitler could succeed in the USA is through the promotion of a cult of personality where the president has absolute control over members of his party, where the free press is vilified as the "enemy of the people", where nationalistic "America First" policies replace international cooperation, where science is ignored, where the military is glorified, where racial and cultural divisions are exploited for political gain, where disinformation and historical revisionism are used to twist the political narrative and obscure truth, and where the peaceful transfer of power is threatened. It's hard to see anything like that ever happening in the USA, especially under the Biden administration.


Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2021 06:01 am
The death of democracy (and of America) will come at the hands of people demanding more and more "freedom."

Fact is, for a society to be "free"...large amounts of personal freedom must be surrendered.
0 Replies
 
longly1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2021 10:00 pm
@hightor,
That all is irrelevant; what matters is power, and any time the federal government tries to reach into the states takes over a state function, it is an act of a fascist trying to seize power. I don’t care what a president says; I only care what he does. Anytime a president tries to extend the federal government beyond its constitutional established limit, it is dangerous; even when it is a desirable goal, it could turn out bad in the long run. Remember, power corrupts and absolute power absolutely; you can trust no one with too much power.

At one time, there was not much difference between the United States and Mexico; they had a similar system. The Mexican president Santa Anna complained that the Mexican government was inefficient and corrupt. He abolished the Mexican federal constitution. When some northern states supported the constitution and rebelled, most Mexican people supported Santa Anta and crushed the rebels. How did that work out for the Mexican people? The same thing could happen to us.
hightor
 
  0  
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2021 08:48 am
@longly1,
Quote:
That all is irrelevant; what matters is power, and any time the federal government tries to reach into the states takes over a state function, it is an act of a fascist trying to seize power.

That's a highly dramatic interpretation of the activity of the federal government. The fact is that "any time the federal government tries to reach into the states takes over a state function" it's either a response to a problem that a state is unwilling to solve (voting rights, for instance) or unable to solve (a disaster declaration or public health crisis). These are temporary actions, not acts of fascism.
Quote:
Remember, power corrupts and absolute power absolutely; you can trust no one with too much power.

Without some power invested in our institutions our government wouldn't be able to function. We have laws and regulations which moderate these powers. If you read the Constitution you can see that no individual or agency has anything remotely like "absolute power".
Quote:
How did that work out for the Mexican people?

Apparently it worked out well for most of them — "most Mexican people supported Santa Anta and crushed the rebels."
Quote:
The same thing could happen to us.

"Could" doesn't really seem that threatening. When is this going to happen? Why is it going to happen? Who is going to make it happen? There might be a good reason for it. It's much more likely that any constituency desirous of change large enough to be listened to would be courted by a major political party. And should it happen, the USAmerican people are resilient enough to thrive under any system of government imposed on them.
longly1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2021 08:05 pm
@hightor,
I am sorry, but you are wrong; despite the fact we believe we are special people, the only thing that makes us special is our system. It is our system that allowed ordinary people to improve their standard of living. The Mexican system allowed the Mexican elites to retain power and wealth. Today the US is a prosperous country, and Mexico is a poor country. Mexicans are breaking our laws to slipping into the United States. Americans are not trying to slip into Mexico.
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2021 02:37 am
@longly1,
Quote:
...despite the fact we believe we are special people, the only thing that makes us special is our system.

First thing, we're not "special". But more important, and more ominous, is the contention that the system of government is more important than the people being governed. I think the founders of this country would be appalled at that notion.
Quote:
It is our system that allowed ordinary people to improve their standard of living.

You can say that about the political system in nearly any stable modern country. The Peoples Republic of China is a good example. Even though most USAmericans would not choose to live there you can't say that the average Chinese citizen's standard of living hasn't improved greatly since the '70s.
Quote:
Today the US is a prosperous country...

For some it is. For many it's not. To paint our system as being some sort of civic paradise where enlightened citizens make informed choices and share equally in the benefits of democracy is to shut your eyes to the reality of late stage capitalism and to the depth of the political divisions in this country.
Quote:
The Mexican system allowed the Mexican elites to retain power and wealth.

So did the USAmerican system. The system is rigged to protect the wealthy. Congress passed corporate tax cuts under the previous administration — before we ever paid off the trillions in debt caused by our military adventurism in the Mideast. Our revenues aren't enough to fund our necessary expenditures and we are forced to borrow the money needed to solve real social needs — like dealing with an unprecedented public health crisis.
Quote:
Mexicans are breaking our laws to slipping into the United States.
USAmericans helped to set up corrupt governments in Central America to protect USAmerican business interests and corporate profits, resulting in a series of unrepresentative repressive dictatorships as climate change and overpopulation destroy the traditional economy. At least the Central American immigrants aren't trying to slip into the Capitol.
Quote:
Americans are not trying to slip into Mexico.

No — they're not willing to do the sort of jobs that are available in Central America. They won't even do those jobs here — that's why we pay (exploit) Central Americans to fill those jobs. Our system needs an underclass.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Mar, 2021 05:40 am
How to Tame the Presidency After Trump

Congress needs to find creative ways to engage the executive branch that favor cooperation over conflict.

Quote:
What should Congress do about the “imperial” presidency? President Donald Trump managed the executive branch as his own fief, mocking the markers Congress had set down to secure its interests in government. Mr. Trump purged inspectors general and removed an F.B.I. director, brushing aside protections Congress established in law for their independence. He installed loyalists in acting positions, flouting the Senate’s confirmation process, and weakened protections for career professionals. He defied Congress’s power of the purse and its oversight authority.

Mr. Trump’s onslaught on the legislature exposed serious weaknesses in previous efforts to counter the rise of the presidency. But the responses that come most readily to mind are likely to prove ineffective. Congress will have to reach deeper into its tool kit if it is to reclaim its voice. The best option would be for Congress to assert its capacity to engage the president and the executive branch in ways that foster cooperation in issues of governance.

With President Biden now in the White House, Congress might be tempted to duck the problem. He has promised to restrain himself and respect the norms that Congress expects presidents to uphold.

But that would be a mistake: Looking to Mr. Biden for relief from Mr. Trump’s transgressions still leaves the potential for abuse in place for a future president — and it also leaves the potential in place for Mr. Biden himself, if he so chooses that path even occasionally. If Mr. Trump taught us anything, it is that presidents are not dependable arbiters of best practices. It shouldn’t be up to them to decide for themselves whether to respect prosecutorial independence or listen to the experts.

A second option is for Congress to try to restrain the presidency proactively. Legislators could, for instance, bolster the independence of inspectors general. They could threaten with the power of the purse.

But Congress has tried pushback like that before. In the 1970s, legislators reacted to the abuses of the Nixon administration with a robust assertion of Congress’s constitutional muscle. The upshot, paradoxically, was that presidents doubled down on the separation of powers. They insisted on their singular hold over the executive power, stiffened White House control over administrative agencies and resisted congressional oversight as Mr. Trump did in defiance of congressional subpoenas.

Institutional combat doesn’t play to Congress’s strengths. Congress has been far more effective when it adopted a third option: finding creative ways that made it a win-win for the executive and legislative branches to work together and that stressed the integration of the three branches rather than their separation.

Consider a few examples from the first half of the 20th century. When Congress wanted to gain a firmer grip on government spending, it enlisted the presidency as a partner. In 1921, legislators required the president to propose an annual budget, created a new budget bureau to ensure that the president’s recommendations were backed by expertise and established an independent office to keep track of expenditures. When, in the late 1930s, the president asked for power to reorganize the agencies of the executive branch, Congress devised a new cooperative arrangement. The president’s reorganization plans would be privileged, but legislators could veto them. When Congress wanted to act in areas like financial regulation or monetary policy, it fused the interests of legislators, presidents and administrators together in new independent agencies like the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Federal Reserve Board. When in the wake of the New Deal legislators sought to make bureaucratic power more compatible with the constitutional structure, they devised the Administrative Procedure Act, which provided judicial oversight of executive branch rule-making.

In these initiatives, Congress insisted on being more than just a watchdog or simply countering the president’s claims to control. Instead, it reworked institutional relationships, recruiting the presidency as a partner in new cooperative enterprises. By turning administration — the day-to-day business of governing — into an arena of mutual engagement, both of the political branches became more powerful. Congress secured its interests by encouraging presidents to serve purposes larger than their own.

In recent decades, work on this third option has faced tough sledding. The resurgence of constitutional formalism stifles legislative creativity, and as Mr. Trump showed, a rigid prioritization of the separation of powers heavily favors the presidency. Executive branch management becomes the president’s exclusive domain, and at a time when the bureaucracy does the lion’s share of governing, Congress is marginalized.

The Supreme Court has reinforced this new formalism to Congress’s disadvantage. For instance, in 1983, it ruled Congress’s legislative veto a violation of the separation of powers. In 2020, another congressional innovation failed judicial review. The court voided part of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, finding that the agency’s single director, who had been insulated from at-will removal by the president, “violates the separation of powers.”

Justice Elena Kagan’s dissent in that case took direct aim at the court’s new formalism and nodded to Congress’s historic role as the creative force in American government. She acknowledged that Congress has significant latitude “to organize all the institutions of American governance” and urged the court to support novel arrangements: “Throughout the Nation’s history, this Court has left most decisions about how to structure the executive branch to Congress and the President, acting through legislation they both agree to.”

Can Congress get creative again and find new ways to induce cooperation? Justice Kagan’s opinion was a dissent, and Congress’s recent record of protecting its institutional interests is spotty. But opportunities are at hand. The current occupant of the White House spent much of his career at the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue, and that might provide a rare opening to ideas that bridge what the Constitution separates.

More important still, Congress has at its disposal a variety of bridge-building tools. It could revive the use of multi-member independent boards. It could depoliticize key administrative positions by assigning the appointment of “inferior officers,” like administrative law judges, to the courts. It could rework the president’s emergency declaration powers, requiring legislative approval for any action lasting more than 30 days. It could create a congressional regulation office, mirroring the president’s Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, to engage executive branch agencies in a more cooperative process of rule-making.

We can’t rely on presidents to restrain themselves, and legislative checks are too often ineffectual. Resolving the thorny problems before us starts with recognizing that the full potential of legislative power lies in creative approaches to institutional design.

nyt
0 Replies
 
 

 
  1. Forums
  2. » The Imperial President
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.62 seconds on 07/18/2025 at 11:00:14