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How do I convince my husband that morality is more important than gain?

 
 
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2020 03:35 pm
To me, how you accomplish something is even more important than the accomplishment itself. Trump is a classes example of this. He's very wealthy and powerful, but he did it in an unethical way. Success really isn't anything to be proud of if you had to cheat to do it.

One example that pertains to our family right now is Redshirting. This is when the parents of a child born between October and December wait until their child is almost 6 to send them to Kindergarten, so that they will be older than their classmates and have an unfair advantage over them.

This is clearly cheating, as it's almost inevitable a child is going to come out on top when being compared to children a year younger than them. However, this is exactly what my husband wants to do. In 2021, our son will turn 5 in the first week of October, which means that he should be starting Kindergarten next Fall. However, he is insisting that we wait until the Fall of 2022, as this means he will consistently perform better than all of his classmates instead of performing worse than 3 quarters of his classmates, as would probably be the case if we sent him on time.

I'm not trying to deny that he'll do much better in school if we wait a year. Indeed, there are countless studies out there that prove that kids who are older almost always do better.

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-15490760

https://www.cultofpedagogy.com/academic-redshirting/

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/08/beyond-the-pros-and-cons-of-redshirting/401159/

I have no doubt that if we redshirt our son, he'll get straight A's and be in gifted programs all through school, win every class competition, be valedictorian, go off to one of HYP, and have a 6-figure-salary by his mid-twenties.

However, the reason I don't want to redshirt is simply because it's morally wrong. It would give him an unfair advantage over the rest of his classmates. I couldn't genuinely feel proud of my son for outperforming kids a year younger than him. I would feel much happier if he did okay playing by the rules than excel by cheating.

I've tried telling my husband this, but he doesn't seem to think there's anything unethical about this. He's also the breadwinner of the family, so what he says pretty much goes. How do I make him see that you sometimes have to give up what you desire in order to do what's right? Thank you in advance!
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2020 04:00 pm
@naturenurture,
I agree with your husband. Why wouldn't you do this.

I the the more important question is... how does your husband convince you?


0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2020 04:06 pm
@naturenurture,
naturenurture wrote:

I have no doubt that if we redshirt our son, he'll get straight A's and be in gifted programs all through school, win every class competition, be valedictorian, go off to one of HYP, and have a 6-figure-salary by his mid-twenties.

Really? Amazing kid you have there.

I think the question is whether or not your child is ready for school. If he is, he will likely be successful regardless of when you send him. If not, you should hold him back. The "moral" thing to do is what is best for your child.
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BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2020 05:32 pm
@naturenurture,
Sorry but it is your job to do the best for your son not to worry over him having any repeat any advantage over other children as a result!!!!!

Hell looking at this thinking you can not have more books in the house then the average home with children, you can not take him on field trips more then the average child or encourage him to have hobbies beyond the average child.

My father once have a meeting with the school guidance counselor who told him that I was not nearly as bright as I thoughts I was as I was just an overachiever of all evilness.

My parents would drive me many miles from home so I could search for books on subjects that interest me and would buy me such things as volts ohm meters as well as putting up with my rewiring household devices to improved them.

I was just an average student except when it came to math and science courses thank to my parents 'cheating' by supporting my interests.

Shame on them.

0 Replies
 
naturenurture
 
  0  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2021 11:34 am
@naturenurture,
Thank you for all of your responses so far. I know it's been 3 months, but I wanted to share an important update.

I now officially have proof that my husband sees nothing wrong with cheating. Very briefly, I felt hopeful that maybe my husband simply wanted to redshirt our son in order to give him a better learning experience rather than for competitive reasons. I came to the realization that redshirting is not cheating as long as the redshirted child isn't signed up for any competitions. I just told my husband that I'm fine with redshirting our son as long as we don't let him enroll in any competitions like sports, running for class president, testing for gifted programs, running for valedictorian, applying to top colleges, etc.

When I proposed this compromise to him, he said we would be punishing our son for something that wasn't his choice. He doesn't seem to understand that it's wrong to enter a competition with such a massive advantage that you're almost guaranteed to win. He seems to think I want to sabotage our son's future, when in reality, I'd love for my son to win these things, but ONLY if he plays fairly. My husband doesn't care that winning something through an artificial advantage you did nothing to earn is nothing to be proud of.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2021 12:48 pm
@naturenurture,
This is a moral question and what you value - so you may not win this - it is a difference of opinion - some people value results more and some how you get there. So I doubt you will be able to change his mind.

As far as this:
Quote:
One example that pertains to our family right now is Redshirting. This is when the parents of a child born between October and December wait until their child is almost 6 to send them to Kindergarten, so that they will be older than their classmates and have an unfair advantage over them.


To me this is just stupid. I can see doing this say if your child is immature and may have difficulty being one of the younger ones in school, but to do it for sports or academics is dumb. Why? Because in the long run - it won't matter! Say your son is a little bigger in elementary school so he is top picked player on all his teams - well once you get a certain age the kids all catch up and you see less a difference in say a 16 year old and a 17 year old. So really in the long run there really is no advantage - same with academics.

And unless your child is already gifted - he will not be in school. Put it to you this way my daughter graduated with a girl that was 2 years younger than her (she moved up because she was gifted) - she was also valedictorian.

Some one who is truly gifted will still be gifted. One who is not will not suddenly become gifted because of a year.

I think you hold your child back if he seems not ready for school. It will make minimal difference - this comes from real life. And you are probably talking about a few months difference not a year if your child was born toward the end of the year.
Linkat
 
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Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2021 02:48 pm
@Linkat,
Oh gosh am I ever late to the party! Did not see the original date
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Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2021 02:59 pm
@naturenurture,
naturenurture wrote:

He doesn't seem to understand that it's wrong to enter a competition with such a massive advantage that you're almost guaranteed to win.


It isn't a massive advantage. Which month was his birthday? You mentioned at first something like Oct - Dec - I am assuming the cutoff for the age then is Jan 1 or Dec 31? So he would be only 3 months different than the oldest kid in his grade - that really is little advantage and boys tend to less mature and a bit behind girls so I honestly think this is little advantage.

Compare - when my daughter was younger she played basketball as part of her youth - Their town team was pretty good so they got to play in a state competition - this was I think 5th or 6th grade. There was one girl that everyone knew because she was huge - come to find out she started school late and she was even big for her actual grade. So any way they played according to grade and not age. We did well until we played them - this girl was so big all their team had to do was toss to her and no one could do much. My daughter dove for a ball - this girl reached done to get and lifted the ball with my daughter attached and tossed her. No penalty because it was all ball.

Flash forward to high school and now the girl is still big but she is far from the largest - she does ok but is lazy and not so much as a threat any more. I think she got lazy and lacked effort because it was too easy for her before.

So you see it is not all good - if the school work or any other type of competition is too easy it actually can end up doing the opposite for your son.

Overall I would not worry - he does not have a massive advantage.

Question how old is he now? And does he show he excels in anything? Academics, music, athletics?
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engineer
 
  2  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2021 03:15 pm
@naturenurture,
naturenurture wrote:

Thank you for all of your responses so far. I know it's been 3 months, but I wanted to share an important update.

Thanks for the update. I think your proposal is out of line. The date of school starting is arbitrary and varies from district to district. The only place this really makes a difference is in sports, and even there it is mostly in middle school. If your child is ready academically and socially for school, he will be just as ready for gifted classes as if you held him back. If your child is not ready for school, holding him back will allow him to mature some which will significantly help his performance in school. This isn't cheating, this is just evaluating your child and offering him the optimum school experience for his development level.

You haven't said whether or not you think your child is ready for school, but let's say he is. There is a cost to holding a child back. There is the cost of daycare for you (several thousand dollars) and the lost productivity of your son who will be essentially losing a year of his working life. Those are fair costs to pay if your son is not ready for school, but if he is, why would you do that?
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ddtwidftybr
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2021 06:45 pm
@naturenurture,
We sent our December-born son to Kindergarten when he was 4. Academically, he was fine, but he had a lot of challenges socially. In high school, he was the last of his friends to get his driver's license. In college, he didn't turn 21 until halfway through his senior year, which was torture for him.
tbwltmwtf
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2021 06:52 pm
@ddtwidftybr,
In response to your last sentence: If your son had dropped out of college due to anxiety like I did, came back later, and graduated later, he wouldn't have had to go through that "torture", now would he have? Is that what he would've rather had happen to him? I know that I would've much rather been the last of my friends to turn 21 if it meant I could've had a smooth, uninterrupted path, as opposed to the bumpy, uneven path I had; a path that being the first of my friends to turn 21 wasn't worth.
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naturenurture
 
  0  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2021 07:47 pm
@ddtwidftybr,
But it’s not like he got his driver’s license and got to go to bars later in his life. That’s what I don’t understand about the driving/drinking argument in regards to redshirting. My son will be able to drive in October of 2032, regardless of whether he’s a 10th grader or an 11th grader at that point. He’ll also be able to go to bars in October of 2037, regardless of whether he’s a college junior or a college senior at that point.

The exact same people who were able to drive and drink before your son would’ve still been able to drive and drink before him if you had held him back. A better way to word your last sentence would be “He was already halfway through his senior by the time he turned 21."
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