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Is Privacy necessary to Democracy?

 
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2020 06:35 am
@vikorr,
In the Boston Marathon Bombings in 2013... the two terrorists blended in with a crowd of spectators. Police wanted to know who they were and how they planted the bomb. Police used cell phone cameras and surveillance cameras and cell phone cameras to solve the crime quickly.

I remember the public call... police wanted to see every cell phone picture taken in the area around the time of the bombing whether it was important or not. People responded by sending all of their pictures.

The police used pictures taken from personal cell phones to solve the crime and identify the terrorists.
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2020 10:29 am
@oralloy,
But you are here.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2020 10:52 am
@RABEL222,
True. But I try to prevent nosy people on a2k from finding out much personal information about me. I'm always careful about answering personal questions that are nobody's business.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2020 01:38 pm
@vikorr,
Just speculating, Vikorr, but I would almost bet that in the next few years, cash will not be accepted anywhere. Turn it in, have it added to your personal id card, and off you go. Once every transaction can be recorded, your drones will be obsolete.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2020 02:01 pm
@roger,
Why do you need a personal ID card? Just use your subdermal implant.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2020 02:32 pm
@maxdancona,
I hadn't thought of that. Way more secure for some values of 'secure'.
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2020 02:50 pm
@maxdancona,
Yep. And as with all of your previous examples, we have no disagreement regarding your examples (except for the Nazi one).

The boston bombings were interesting. The two bombers were behaving differently from the rest of the crowd. It would be interesting if a program was written that could recognise such at major events. Currently cost & sensors would be the limiting factor at this stage as to what could be achieved. If so, when costs etc come down, it wouldnt only have to apply to such events - you should be able to program it down to shop theft behaviours as well.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2020 02:55 pm
@roger,
It will be many years if ever before we become a cashless society. Cashless requires terminals and infrastructure - many generla members of the public currently do private sales / garage sales etc (ie. many legitimate transactions don't involve eftpos terminals). Telling them you are going to outlow such is a hard sell.

As for subdermal implants, there are already some people choosing to do this. Very few, but some.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2020 04:03 pm
@roger,
I can get a subdermal tracking chip for my dog, but not for my teenaged daughter.

How does that make any sense?
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2020 04:56 pm
@maxdancona,
Dogs don't have civil rights. People do - at least for now.
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2020 04:58 pm
@maxdancona,
You can devices on ebay to duplicate microchip keys, and there are signal booster devices out there, sold by electronics shops that have been used to steal high end cars from outside of cafe's.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2020 05:42 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

Dogs don't have civil rights. People do - at least for now.


Hopefully you (at least) realize that my last comment was made with tongue fully implanted into cheek.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2020 05:52 pm
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:

You can devices on ebay to duplicate microchip keys, and there are signal booster devices out there, sold by electronics shops that have been used to steal high end cars from outside of cafe's.


That sounds pretty poorly designed.

Part of my current project involves collecting data from millions of consumer devices. The customers register their device using their cell phone (they are kind of forced to do this, the device isn't that cool if it isn't registered on the internet).

We have a team dedicated to security (its not my team, but I talk to them and know what they are doing). Security is a big deal (for obvious reasons)... our customers trust us to properly maintain a product in their home that connects to the internet. They customers don't want to think about it, but a front page story about a data breach could destroy our business.

We hire very good security experts and use industry best practices. This includes dual-key cryptography (which in my opinion is very cool).

I am surprised the high end car companies aren't more careful.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2020 05:58 pm
@vikorr,
Interesting... the signal booster attack seems to be a real story.

Good cryptographic systems use a "handshaking" procedure, they don't just use a password, one asks the other to solve a math problem that you need some hidden information to solve... the actual "password" is never sent and can't be copied.

However, the signal booster attack is what we call a "man in the middle attack". They have a device hidden where the victim is sitting, next to the real key. They have another device near the car. The these devices get the question from the car, and relay the it to the key to get the correct answer....

That is cool.

I can think of at least one way to defeat this type of attack.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2020 06:15 pm
@maxdancona,
Yeah, I kind of picked up on that. Of course, what you said is true.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2020 07:32 pm
@maxdancona,
Technically, the microchip storage of credit card details can also be stolen this way - which is problematic when it comes to contactless payments. However this sort of theft seems to be fairly rare. It was years ago I first read this particular story, so I don't know if they've since solved the issue.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2020 09:11 pm
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:

Technically, the microchip storage of credit card details can also be stolen this way - which is problematic when it comes to contactless payments. However this sort of theft seems to be fairly rare. It was years ago I first read this particular story, so I don't know if they've since solved the issue.


I don't think you understand how the EMV chip cards work. There is no "number" to steal, it is a cryptographic conversation and the key changes each time.

You can't just copy a chip (unless you take it apart layer by layer... but I don't think that is what you are talking about).


vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2020 09:32 pm
@maxdancona,
My understanding is it was done. And there were several news articles about such. But if it can't be done, that's fine.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2020 10:11 pm
@vikorr,
I was just reading about the attacks on the chip. You can't clone a chip (without taking it apart layer by layer... which isn't feasible).

They have figured out a way to trick the card into thinking that the user has already entered her PIN. But this is a way to use a stolen card without a PIN, it doesn't clone a card.
0 Replies
 
ander111
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Nov, 2020 02:41 am
@vikorr,
In Canada, where I live, privacy is taken so seriously, there's even a government ministry about it. You may find this interesting:

Freedom and democracy cannot exist without privacy

(Written in 2019 by Privacy Commissioner Daniel Therrien)
0 Replies
 
 

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