10
   

Way too many citizens being killed by police!

 
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2020 07:04 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
How do you rationalize the fact that you cannot provide any examples of me ever failing to distinguish between fact and opinion?


I am answering this only because it amuses me. I have provided many examples... but there is a basic problem here that you are trapped in circular logic. Since you can't distinguish between fact and opinion, it doesn't do any good to point the examples.

I have already given you the most ridiculous example. When you tell me what I believe... and then argue with me about what my own beliefs are when I correct you.

Oralloy won't listen to this... but for everyone else, I will explain the easy way to distinguish between a fact and an opinion. A fact can be disproven. Anything I state to be a fact, I will tell you what specific evidence will get me to change my mind.

If you can't do this, then I will not accept it as a fact.




maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2020 07:05 pm
@maxdancona,
As an example of Oralloy's Mindreading...

1. I support Black Lives Matter as a movement for social justice.
2. I don't believe that Black people should be allowed to kill police officers.

I will leave Oralloy to demonstrate my point for me...

(For the record, liberals do this mindreading thing too, but the examples from Oralloy are the most egregious.)
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2020 07:52 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
I have provided many examples...

No you haven't. You have never provided a single example of me failing to distinguish between fact and opinion.


maxdancona wrote:
but there is a basic problem here that you are trapped in circular logic. Since you can't distinguish between fact and opinion, it doesn't do any good to point the examples.

No. The basic problem here is your inability to provide any examples.


maxdancona wrote:
I have already given you the most ridiculous example. When you tell me what I believe... and then argue with me about what my own beliefs are when I correct you.

When you openly express solidarity with a hate group, it is reasonable to credit you with having the same views as that hate group.


maxdancona wrote:
Oralloy won't listen to this... but for everyone else, I will explain the easy way to distinguish between a fact and an opinion. A fact can be disproven.

Untrue claims can be disproven.

It's pretty difficult to disprove reality on account of it being real.


maxdancona wrote:
Anything I state to be a fact, I will tell you what specific evidence will get me to change my mind.
If you can't do this, then I will not accept it as a fact.

Progressives are known for their inability to accept reality.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2020 07:53 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
As an example of Oralloy's Mindreading...

When you openly express solidarity with a hate group, it is reasonable to credit you with having the same views as that hate group.


maxdancona wrote:
1. I support Black Lives Matter as a movement for social justice.

It's pretty despicable of you to support the murder of police officers and then call that social justice.


maxdancona wrote:
2. I don't believe that Black people should be allowed to kill police officers.

Your open support for a group dedicated to murdering police officers says otherwise.

I judge you by your actions, not by your words.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2020 07:54 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
Nonsense. Not just normal nonsense, but utter nonsense, bordering on bullshit.
It is the recording of cops committing crimes that have them being "lynched"

That is incorrect. Police officers are being lynched for justified self defense.


McGentrix wrote:
(held to the same criminal law that others are).

It is also wrong to lynch private citizens for justifiably defending themselves.


McGentrix wrote:
Body SHOULD be mandatory by 2025 for every officer and if they refuse, they can look for another job.

Not when police officers are being lynched for justified self defense. The police need to be able to hide the fact that they ever killed someone. Let the deaths be chalked up to gang warfare or something.


McGentrix wrote:
Where is that in the US Constitution?

I could argue that Article I Section 8 provisions for arming the militia could extend to arming the police.

But I question why it needs to be in the Constitution before the federal government can give aid to local government.


McGentrix wrote:
Because regular beat cops should not be shooting up the people they are sworn to protect. They have enough to do being cops that they do not need to be SWAT too.

What should a regular beat cop do when a criminal pulls a gun and starts shooting at him or her?


McGentrix wrote:
The advantage is that SWAT officers are trained to do what they do. Giving a cop an automatic rifle and a vest does not give them the training that a SWAT officer needs.

I don't see how making them separate departments remedies a training deficiency among patrol officers.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2020 09:08 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
It's pretty despicable of you to support the murder of police officers and then call that social justice.


Just as I expected. This is a perfect example of you doing the mindreading thing.

This is why, in my opinion, it is impossible to have a rational conversation with you (and why it isn't worth my time to try).
McGentrix
 
  0  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2020 10:24 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

But I question why it needs to be in the Constitution before the federal government can give aid to local government.


Because the Constitution outlines the responsibilities of the Federal Government.

If you use the word "lynched", "lynching" or "lynch" with me again, we are done with any conversation.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2020 11:31 pm
@McGentrix,
It is the correct word to use when a mob unjustly destroys someone's life for an imaginary crime.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2020 11:32 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Just as I expected. This is a perfect example of you doing the mindreading thing.

Don't be silly. Judging you by your actions and not by your words isn't mind-reading.


maxdancona wrote:
This is why, in my opinion, it is impossible to have a rational conversation with you (and why it isn't worth my time to try).

It is wrong of you to falsely blame me for your own lack of ability.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  2  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2020 11:54 pm
@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
Body SHOULD be mandatory by 2025 for every officer and if they refuse, they can look for another job.

Not when police officers are being lynched for justified self defense. The police need to be able to hide the fact that they ever killed someone. Let the deaths be chalked up to gang warfare or something.

You might want to reconsider that. It sounds like you're losing it.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 28 Sep, 2020 12:26 am
@roger,
There is nothing to reconsider. I choose to stand on the side of truth and justice. Period.
0 Replies
 
justaguy2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Sep, 2020 06:57 am
farmerman wrote:
I see youre beginning to see some light. Ill not discourage attempts at actual knowledge. Carry on.


As I've said in numerous threads here...

Until you Americans stop seeing things like universal health care and welfare as "socialism", then it's not likely much, if anything, will change in your country.
Until you Americans stop seeing equality as "socialism", not much is likely to change. Until everyone, regardless of race, income, etc have the *same* access to things like education, employment, health care, etc, not much is likely to change.

So I'm not going to hold my breath...

maxdancona wrote:
Oralloy, I am expressing my opinion in this post. I am not asserting any facts, so there is nothing here to argue. I am just telling you how I feel.


I have no obligation to interact with you in any way. If I choose to respond to a post, it is because either I have point to make I consider valid, or because you say something interesting (in this case, it is the former).

In my opinion, you are not worth engaging in any serious way. The reason for this is that in my opinionyou are unable to distinguish between fact and opinion.

In my opinion, it is annoying when you make outrageous claims, and then you just keep repeating "It's fact" "It's fact" "It's fact" "You can't disprove it" "you can't disprove it" "you can't disprove it" "it's fact" "everything I say is fact". You are not making any real argument, and you are as boring as hell.

In my opinion, it is especially annoying when you tell me what I am thinking, and then disagree with me about my own thoughts when I tell you you a wrong. Your claim to be able to read minds is so ridiculous that it makes it impossible to take you seriously.

In my opinion, it will be worthwhile to engage with you seriously (rather than this nonsense) when

1. You stop mindreading and start listening when people tell you what they actually believe.

2. You can (in my opinion) accept facts even when (in my opinion) they conflict with your ideological narrative.

I will engage with you serious when, in my opinion, I feel like there is a point. Until then, I consider your far right-wing, ideological bluster to be (in my opinion) completely with merit.

When I don't respond to something, it is because I don't see any reason to.


While granted, what you say is absolutely true... you are the last person here that should be taking any moral high ground. Particularly when almost (if not) exactly the same things can also be said about yourself.

So how about you take your own advice there maxdancona? And assuming it's not a foreign concept to you; try thinking about what I've said beyond the lens of just an insult and try to understand why not only myself, but many others here think you are nothing but a complete hypocrite... if you dare of course.

McGentrix,

You are absolutely spot on in everything you've said, nice posts from you. Glad someone here "gets it", spot on once again!

However, I have a question about the quoted part of one of your posts below;

McGentrix wrote:
SWAT teams have changed over the last 50 years and todays SWAT teams should be separated from the city police force. They should be trained differently and held to a different standard than a police officer.


Are you saying that what you would call a "SWAT team" in America should be a separate unit within said police force, or are you saying that the SWAT team should be a separate government agency altogether?

And at least in Australia, what you call a "SWAT team" are trained to a much higher level and are held to higher standards than a "regular police officer" (but you are spot on all the same once again).

PS: I apologize if I've judged you too harshly in previous replies to you in other threads. Smile
eurocelticyankee
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Sep, 2020 07:12 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
Quote:
Mandatory body cameras that are on at start of shift and completely out of the control of the officer.
If the officer blocks camera or mutes it, they are terminated.

Get rid of qualified immunity. Cops need to be able to kill bad guys, but they also need to be held responsible for killing innocent people as well.

No knock warrants must become a thing of the past. There is no need for them and they serve no purpose.

Rid the police of military gear and return to community policing. Go back to the days of ADAM-12 where police knew the communities they served and were respected in return.

Form special units for handling gangs and other things of such need. They must be separate from Police and held to super high standards.



Absolutely spot on McG.

Anybody who disagrees with you on this is a lost cause.

0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 28 Sep, 2020 09:16 am
@justaguy2,
Justaguy,

I say the same thing to you that I say to Oralloy (and actually I consider you and Oralloy to be very similar in my opinion). I don't think you really understand what I am saying to Oralloy... so let me rephrase it from your point of view.

1. You have no obligation to respond to any of my posts, and and you have no obligation to take me seriously (and I don't really give a **** anyway).

2. You have every right to think I am a hypocrite. Based on your opinion, you can choose to interact with me as a hypocrite, or not. It doesn't matter.

3. You seem to feel like you have some obligation to respond to me. You don't. You can ignore me, or respond to some posts and not to others.

4. You should only interact with me in a way that is worth your time, in your opinion, and makes you happy.

I personally don't understand why you spend so much time interacting with someone you consider to be a hypocrite. But that's your business. I am only glad that on some level you think I am worth it.

As you notice, I don't take you very seriously. But you are an Australian... what do you expect.

oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 28 Sep, 2020 09:22 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
I consider you and Oralloy to be very similar in my opinion

Now you are just being silly.

I post facts and logic without name-calling.

Justaguy2 posts name-calling without facts or logic.

I know progressives as a rule renounce all ties with reality, but try to be a bit more honest with your characterizations.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 28 Sep, 2020 09:28 am
And, Justaguy, I do want to make the same offer to you that I make to Oralloy.

I am open to having what (in my opinion) is a rational discussion with you. In that case I would do my best to lay out my ideas in a logical way. I would listen to your arguments and accept whatever facts you present as long as they are backed by evidence. It is possible for two people to disagree respectfully, or to find some common ground. I have had this type of interaction with several people here on both sides of the political chasm.

Whether you think this is worth trying with me is completely up to you. Maybe you don't think it is possible with a person you believe to be a liar and hypocrite. That is up to you.

But if you choose to try a rational discussion beyond insults.. I am game.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Mon 28 Sep, 2020 09:44 am
@oralloy,
That is a lie Oralloy... just a few posts above you called me "despicable".

I don't think you know what the word "fact" means. Facts can be disproven.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 28 Sep, 2020 09:44 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
I would listen to your arguments and accept whatever facts you present as long as they are backed by evidence.

This is not even remotely true. You run away as fast as you can at the first sign of any facts.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Mon 28 Sep, 2020 09:47 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

maxdancona wrote:
I would listen to your arguments and accept whatever facts you present as long as they are backed by evidence.

This is not even remotely true. You run away as fast as you can at the first sign of any facts.


If you ever write a posts with real facts... we can see if that is true. Facts can be disproven.

You can call it "running away from the facts" if you want (again you are mind reading... but that is your right). In truth I am ignoring your posts because they bore me. It is rare that you say anything creative, insightful or even unexpected.

oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 28 Sep, 2020 09:53 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
That is a lie Oralloy... just a few posts above you called me "despicable".

Criticizing you for taking a despicable position is hardly name-calling.


maxdancona wrote:
I don't think you know what the word "fact" means.

You are wrong.

You should be used to it by now.


maxdancona wrote:
Facts can be disproven.

No. Untrue statements can be disproven.

Progressives have been trying pretty hard to disprove reality for some time now. So far they've had no luck doing so.
0 Replies
 
 

 
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