Way too many citizens being killed by police!

@maxdancona,

1200 is still unacceptable to me. Due process is what we all are supposed to be given. Cops operate under a presumed validity for use of deadly force. (Theres an actual name or it). Someone knows it I only herd it in the news llast few weeks after the FLOYD MURDER.

PS, I wonder how many bullets were expended in those 1200 killings

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@maxdancona,

PS, my comments after yours comments were relly to Ollie, I hve not really been following your argument closely.

Ollie just comes up with these cloacan emmissions like this

Quote:

The rules of engagement allow police officers to defend themselves when black people try to murder them

What hes doing is approving proactive murder. Let cops Kill black people before they think of doing you harm??

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@farmerman,

Farmerman wants black people to be free to murder police officers with impunity. But he's just showing what freaks progressives are. Police officers have the right to defend themselves when black people try to murder them.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

only black people, I seee.

Not at all. Police have the right to defend themselves no matter who tries to murder them.

But it's only black people that you are saying should be free to rape and murder others, so black people are the focus of the conversation.

farmerman wrote:

You should go back down to the basement and play some puter games. Youre starting to sound more loopy than usual.

You engage in childish name-calling because you are too stupid to come up with intelligent arguments.

farmerman wrote:

Youre really not too big on forensic evidence are you??

As with all subjects, everyone else (including me) understands it much better than you understand it.

farmerman wrote:

Ruls of engagement do NOT allow officers to open fire when a suspect is fleeing the scene with their back to your weapon.
1Its a danger to civilians in a miscalculated line of fire
2The suspect is no further risk even if he had been originally pointing a gun

I don't know that that is always the case. But even if what you say here is true, so what?

Talk about a red herring.

farmerman wrote:

Further, it Seems to me, many officers shouldnt even have guns because when a killing by cop is often over, dozens of casings from their weapons are collected at the scene.

If you want to start training police to be better with their weapons (better take control of the NYPD away from all those progressives), you'll get no arguments from me.

farmerman wrote:

8 bullets in someones back, you call that justified police action?? I call it murder 2.

I call it another one of your red herrings.

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@farmerman,

For what it's worth, I think that Frank and Rabel and Hightor are far less ridiculous than Oralloy.

I think the liberals are taking a one-sided narrative to an extreme that goes far beyond what the facts can support. That doesn't mean that the narrative doesn't have some merit.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

That you call me ridiculous when I say that murdering police officers is wrong says a lot about you, and about progressives in general.

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Police shouldn't be hired on a municipal level and their training needs to come from the federal government and be in accordance with specific guidelines. Prerequisites have to be met before becoming a police officer and the training should be extensive and a minimum of 2 years.
Payroll is either through state or federal measures with cost of living adjustments for urban areas vs. suburban and rural regions.
Key is proper and extensive training like it is in other countries and police shootings will be a thing of the past.

1 Reply

@CalamityJane,

I don't believe it would eliminate shootings (I'd be happy to be wrong about this), but I'm all for more extensive police training regardless.

It would also be helpful to completely eliminate no-knock warrants.

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@farmerman,

Are you a police officer?

Because, again, you're acting as if you are an expert on something that you have no personal experience with.

This is a reoccurring theme with you.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

Farmerman wants black people to be free to murder police officers with impunity.

This entire thread is ridiculous, and farmerman's posts are the most asinine and laughable.

Some points:

1) George Floyd was not "murdered". That has now been proven. His autopsy showed that he was high out of his mind when he died, and that the drugs are what killed him. Video evidence was purposely withheld during the initial riots that showed Floyd complaining that he couldn't breathe before any officer ever laid a finger on him.

The officer charged in his death has been proven 100% innocent, and Floyd's death had absolutely nothing to do with 'racism'. 100% FACT.

If people like farmerman are so willfully ignorant that even in the face of evidence like this, they continue to say that Floyd was "murdered", then we know that they're full of ****, and that they don't care one iota about reality and facts.

2) Jacob Blake is a violent criminal and rapist. This is a fact.

When he was shot, he had the police called on him because he broke a restraining order put in place by someone whom he raped. When officers showed up, he resisted arrest. The officers used a taser to try to stop him. He again resisted arrest. Then he went for a knife and tried to get into a vehicle (which can also be used as deadly weapon).

Despite what low IQ people like farmerman want to believe because they only listen to CNN and saw 15 seconds of heavily edited video, the police did not just shoot Jacob Blake because they woke up wanting to shoot a black person. The police were acting to stop a violent criminal who intended to hurt people.

3) Just yesterday the district attorney in Kentucky publicly stated that the police in fact DID knock and announced themselves when Breaona Taylor was shot. The officers only shot after her boyfriend (a drug dealer) shot at them first. This is now proven, documented fact. The narrative about the police using a "no-knock warrant" that the leftist media has been pushing for months has been proven false.

Just last night in Kentucky multiple officers were shot by violent blacks, because those blacks didn't get their way when the DA decided not to charge any officers with murder in the Taylor case (because they did nothing wrong).

4) Then you have all these cases where a non black person is punished for defending them self against bodily harm and death.

~Kyle Rittenhouse, shown on video acting in self defense. Not even white (he's Hispanic), being called a "white supremacist" by the leftist media. He's in jail for murder. His family tried to raise money online to cover his legal fees. Go Fund Me, the company that hosted the fund raiser shut it down because of pressure from violent blacks.

~Jake Gardner, much like Rittenhouse was proven with video evidence to be acting in self defense. The DA initially decided not to charge him with any crimes after viewing the evidence. But then violent black mobs harassed and intimidated him until he charged Gardner with felonies that could put him jail for 95 years. All after violent blacks destroyed his business. So Gardner committed suicide.

What the blacks want, is for the police and anyone else who they attack to not be able to defend them self. They want to make self defense illegal. And they are succeeding. In a country that supposedly is "systemically racist" against blacks. In a country like that, blacks are allowed to break any laws they want without punishment, and allowed to attack anyone they want who isn't black, and those people aren't allowed to defend themselves.

Police officers make what? 50k per year on average? They put their lives on the line everyday for 50k a year. They're constantly portrayed as being racist by the media to sensationalize stories. And these people think the problem is with the cops???

America is under attack by violent blacks.

"Black culture" encourages open racism against whites. That's why they have an entire industry built on playing the victim and blaming white people for their own criminal actions thanks to hucksters like Al Sharpton and Ben Crump.

Also, take note that the people that the blacks make into martyr saints after they pass are always criminals. White people don't do that.

2 Replies

@FreedomEyeLove,

4 separate autopsies have declared (as forensic evidence), George Floyd's death was a HOMICIDE.

Does that approach a level of fact?
Id say so.

Unless of course Lovey's forensic skills are reasonably established by more than just making his fonts bigger.

LOvey is a hoot, sad, but laughable

1 Reply

@hightor,

hightor wrote:

Quote:
More Americans are killed by Heatstroke than by Police.

This comparison is very misleading. Police are public servants. We pay the police. Every instance of murder by a police officer, justified or not, means that someone deliberately aimed a lethal weapon at another person and pulled the trigger. On our dime. The total number of people who drown, die of heatstroke, or suffer fatal injuries playing sports might be similar but, compared to killings by police, the social implications are very different.

Apparently Max is unable to see that.

Bottom line...it is a problem we have to deal with. It is a problem that should disgust everyone.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

I understand your point perfectly well. When a police officer kills someone when it is not completely necessary to protect another life it is horrible and unacceptable.

That's one point.

Police kill under 1,200 a year total. This number includes murders committed by police officers as well as cases that even you would agree is justified.

When 1,200 are killed out of the entire country of 300,000,000 people... that is a small number.

That is a different point. They are both valid points.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

I understand your point perfectly well. When a police officer kills someone when it is not completely necessary to protect another life it is horrible and unacceptable.

That's one point.

Police kill under 1,200 a year total. This number includes murders committed by police officers as well as cases that even you would agree is justified.

When 1,200 are killed out of the entire country of 300,000,000 people... that is a small number.

That is a different point. They are both valid points.

We are not always in disagreement, Max...in fact I have agreed with you on many issues.

We seem to be at an impasse here, though.

Let's take it from a different perspective.

My "point" is "Way too many are being killed by police." (See the thread title.)

https://static.prisonpolicy.org/images/policekillings_rates.webp

Max, you seem to see my position as being valid, but inconsequential in some way...or at least equal to, "They are killing only 1,200."

I'd like to ask if you think our police are killing too few...or just enough.

Would you consider the statement, "Our police are killing too few" to be valid?

Would you consider the statement, "Our police are killing just about enough" to be valid?

4 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Statistically there is no contradiction. I don't think we are disagreeing on the facts.

We are both saying that only 33.5 people per 10 million. That is a fact we both accept.

1. You are pointing out that this number 33.5 per 10 million is significantly higher than any other country.

2. I am pointing out that this number 33.5 per 10 million is a very small number, almost insignificant, compared to other causes of death.

Both of these are true. Anything more is opinion.

In my opinion, your use of the word "carnage" for something that kills only 33.5 out of 10 million people is rather excessive.

To answer your question, of course police should be killing fewer people. Ideally they shouldn't kill anyone, but that isn't possible. I support police reform, particularly training and a fair system of accountability (to me fair includes due process for the officers involved). But even so, we aren't talking about very many people.

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@Frank Apisa,

Of course for every killing, there are a lot more violent incidents short of deaths and for each of those there are a number of harassments that stop just short of violence. Having three to four deaths a day is just the tip of the iceberg.

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@Frank Apisa,

Part of the unfortunately-named movement known as "defund the police" is the recognition that, in many circumstances, sending in heavily-armed police to quell a domestic disturbance, collar a shoplifter, or bust a guy for selling loose cigarettes is, well, "overkill". Communities need to develop other models for addressing non-violent crimes and various minor disturbances. Aggressive policing often exacerbates tensions and culminates in violence. Of course, the obscene amount of firearms in circulation makes alternatives difficult to design. But a start could at least be attempted.

1 Reply

@hightor,

I'm all for giving our emergency services more tools in their toolbox. There are cases where a social worker or licensed psychiatrist is much more appropriate than a SWAT team.

But there are also cases where the SWAT team is what is needed. I don't think that adding these extra tools to the toolbox should come at the expense of police funding.

What we need to do is adequately fund all of it.

0 Replies

@FreedomEyeLove,

FreedomEyeLove wrote:

3) Just yesterday the district attorney in Kentucky publicly stated that the police in fact DID knock and announced themselves when Breaona Taylor was shot. The officers only shot after her boyfriend (a drug dealer) shot at them first. This is now proven, documented fact. The narrative about the police using a "no-knock warrant" that the leftist media has been pushing for months has been proven false.

I haven't been following that case, but no-knock warrants are a problem that sometimes leads to bad situations.

It's a bad idea for the police to charge into someone's home without warning.

FreedomEyeLove wrote:

Just last night in Kentucky multiple officers were shot by violent blacks, because those blacks didn't get their way when the DA decided not to charge any officers with murder in the Taylor case (because they did nothing wrong).

4) Then you have all these cases where a non black person is punished for defending them self against bodily harm and death.

~Kyle Rittenhouse, shown on video acting in self defense. Not even white (he's Hispanic), being called a "white supremacist" by the leftist media. He's in jail for murder. His family tried to raise money online to cover his legal fees. Go Fund Me, the company that hosted the fund raiser shut it down because of pressure from violent blacks.

~Jake Gardner, much like Rittenhouse was proven with video evidence to be acting in self defense. The DA initially decided not to charge him with any crimes after viewing the evidence. But then violent black mobs harassed and intimidated him until he charged Gardner with felonies that could put him jail for 95 years. All after violent blacks destroyed his business. So Gardner committed suicide.

What the blacks want, is for the police and anyone else who they attack to not be able to defend them self. They want to make self defense illegal. And they are succeeding. In a country that supposedly is "systemically racist" against blacks. In a country like that, blacks are allowed to break any laws they want without punishment, and allowed to attack anyone they want who isn't black, and those people aren't allowed to defend themselves.

If people are forced to defend themselves from a minority, the answer is "Shoot, Shovel, Shutup".

FreedomEyeLove wrote:

Police officers make what? 50k per year on average? They put their lives on the line everyday for 50k a year. They're constantly portrayed as being racist by the media to sensationalize stories. And these people think the problem is with the cops???

America is under attack by violent blacks.

"Black culture" encourages open racism against whites. That's why they have an entire industry built on playing the victim and blaming white people for their own criminal actions thanks to hucksters like Al Sharpton and Ben Crump.

Also, take note that the people that the blacks make into martyr saints after they pass are always criminals. White people don't do that.

Not all blacks though. Progressive ideology lies at the root of all the evil.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

LOvey is a hoot, sad, but laughable

What's sad is you always engaging in personal attacks and name-calling because you never know what you are talking about.

1 Reply

Way too many citizens being killed by police!

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