Racism

Maybe have the facts instead of rhetoric.

Wall Street Journal Perpetuates Myths About Race & Crime

Jason Riley, writing at the Wall Street Journal on August 8, 2017 (“Legalizing Pot Is a Bad Way to Promote Racial Equality” https://www.wsj.com/articles/l... ) "blacks commit violent crimes at seven to 10 times the rate whites do." That assertion is simply false. There is no good evidence that any racial or ethnic group is more inclined to violence or criminal activity than another, it's an assumption that's racist and wrong.

The data on which Riley bases his claim is from this 2011 report by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, analyzing data from the 2008 Uniform Crime Report:
"Blacks were disproportionately represented as both homicide victims and offenders. The victimization rate for blacks (27.8 per 100,000) was 6 times higher than the rate for whites (4.5 per 100,000). The offending rate for blacks (34.4 per 100,000) was almost 8 times higher than the rate for whites (4.5 per 100,000) (table 1)."
Homicide Trends in the United States, 1980-2008 -- Annual Rates for 2009 and 2010," Bureau of Justice Statistics, Nov. 2011.
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pu...
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pu...

All that says is who got arrested and charged and charged for homicide in 2008. The first problem is that in 2008, clearance rates were 45.1% for violent crimes overall and 63.6% for murder. That leaves large number of murders that are unsolved (the clearance rate for homicides in 2015 was only 61.5%.) Beyond that, the several high-profile cases around the US of individuals who had been convicted of murder only to be exonerated, often but not always due to DNA evidence, raise serious questions over the quality of that metric.

Rather than look at crimes where the perpetrator has been identified only by law enforcement, in order to reduce the possibility of bias it will be helpful to look at crimes where the individual who's been personally victimized can give a description of the person who committed the offense. Those data are collected by the Bureau of Justice Statistics through its National Crime Victimization Survey, though they have not published offender data in several years.

According to BJS, in 2008, the majority of victims of violent crimes, in most cases by wide margins, were white (2,788,600 victimizations with a white victim versus 570,550 with a black victim). White people reporting they'd been the victim of violent crimes reported that the perceived race of the offender in 67.4% of cases was white, in 15.4% of cases black, in 5.1% "other," and unknown or unavailable in 12.0%. Among black people reporting they'd been the victim of violent crimes, the reported offender in 15.9% of cases was white, in 64.7% of cases was black, in 7.3% of cases was "other", and was unknown/unavailable in 12.2%.
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pu...

According to the 2014 report from the National Academy of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine, "The Growth of Incarceration in the United States: Exploring Causes and Consequences":
"The relative involvement of blacks in violent crimes has declined significantly since the late 1980s (see Figure 2-12). From 1972 to 1980, the relative share of blacks in arrests for rape and aggravated assault fell by around one-fourth; more modest declines in their share of arrests were recorded for murder and robbery from the 1970s to the 2000s. In the 1970s, blacks accounted for about 54 percent of all homicide arrests; by the 2000s, that share had fallen below half. For robbery, blacks accounted for 55 percent of arrests in the 1970s, falling to 52 percent by the 2000s. For rape, blacks accounted for about 46 percent of all arrests in the 1970s, declining by 14 percentage points to 32 percent by the 2000s. The declining share of blacks in violent arrests also is marked for aggravated assaults, which constitute a large majority of violent serious crimes: 41 percent in the 1970s and just 33 percent in the 2000s.

"These figures show that arrests of blacks for violent crimes constitute smaller percentages of absolute national numbers that are less than half what they were 20 or 30 years ago (Tonry and Melewski, 2008). Violent crime has been falling in the United States since 1991. In absolute terms, involvement of blacks in violent crime has followed the general pattern; in relative terms, it has fallen substantially more than the overall averages. Yet even though participation of blacks in serious violent crimes has declined significantly, disparities in imprisonment between blacks and whites have not fallen by much; as noted earlier, the incarceration rate for non-Hispanic black males remains seven times that of non-Hispanic whites." pp. 59-60.
https://www.nap.edu/catalog/18...

The bottom line: the idea that African Americans commit crimes or acts of violence at a higher rate than whites is absurd. While it is true that economic deprivation and social alienation can drive criminality, those are separate issues that are unrelated to race. Jason Riley's assertion in his Wall Street Journal column that blacks commit violent crime at 7 to 10 time the rate of whites is incorrect.

https://www.drugwarfacts.org/node/3805

You're repeating an old opinion piece from the Wall Street Journal. It has no stats. The piece is clearly marked as opinion: https://www.wsj.com/articles/jason-riley-the-other-ferguson-tragedy-1416961287

So here are some actual stats from the FBI: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3.xls

Add up the first column, top 4 rows to get white offenders by race: 2854+243+56+43=3196

Add up the second column, top 4 rows to get black offenders by race: 533+2570+37+16=3156

Third column, top 4 rows for offenders of other races: 40+17+123+4=184

Fourth column, top 4 rows for offenders of unknown races: 72+40+5+23=140

Even if we assume all of the offenders of unknown races are black, we get 140+3156= 3296, or 100 more than the white offenders.

Hardly the stuff of 7 times anything.

If you claim you've got data, then show it.

Figures lie and liars figure.

As was stated by others, this ‘data’ was refuted. Was it taken from your local newspaper, The Racist News? Why not try and stick to the comics page?

We don't need a sea change in society to get cops stop killing black youths. We just need to change the police.

You have a superficial west coast fitbit wearing jogger attitude about "change". Kinda boogaloo-ish. Still shooting hoops?

Yes agreed - but we need change from everyone.

I know many white people get defensive when people of color accuse whites of racism - I am not like that; I have friends, I date, I have family ...etc of color. Well yeah most of us do because US is such a mix of cultures.

I think even though you, me whomever are not directly racist - we all have not matter what mix or background some built in filters - we try not to but we cannot help it - it is due to our previous experiences.

We need to be kind to each other - reach out. If you see something happening say on the subway where a person is harassing another - speak up for that person. One time on the subway this guy was harassing an Asian man screaming racial nonsense at him. The man was trying his best just to ignore him - fortunately people started speaking up for him. Gathering around - we need more of this.

I know people are afraid - but you could also look at a fellow passenger and say hey help me stand up for this man. You have a couple of people behind you - then the fear goes away.

You see a black man walking down the street - don't look away - don't be fearful - smile, nod your head and say hi. Start doing friendly things...now granted be safe but we all just need an attitude adjustment - all of us.

I was brought up in a racist society learning racism on the knee of a beloved racist grandfather, a gentle kind Eastern Star grandmother who once said " I'm no racist, I have nothing against n-----rs." and a father who banged the dinner table ranting about ... you know every night.

I know I have white privilege and benefited from it, and while my in mind capital R racism was never part of my equation, small r racism was. I always knew if I was up against a black person for a job, 2 out of 3 times, it was mine. If not because of the racism of the hire-er, because I had benefited from better education and no poverty. I knew if I didn't get the job that the next one or the one after that was going to be mine and I knowvery few black people ever had that knowledge. I work very hard at scrubbing the racism from the calculations of my life knowing at the same time cultural and institutional racism is a big part of what shaped my personal American experience.

But I am determined to be part of the change. I know as an American a black President made this a better place for eight years against a tide of racists who never stopped trying to make him fail. I know there are other black leaders out there who will do the same and even better and I WILL be voting for them.

I know that poverty, terrible schools, abysmal law enforcement, a lack of opportunity are the real culprits in so-called black crime.

Riots are expression of rage over the inequalities of decades and centuries. Looting is part of the language of rage. What astounds me is that law and order as it relates to property crime is held as more important than the pile of dead black "suspects" unarmed and guilty of nothing at the hands of the seeming ironically named "law enforcement". Yes we need society to change, but the first society needing change is the society of law enforcers.

And getting rid of "minimum wage" and starting to think of a "living wage" and universal health care.

Change the ass end of society and and society's hearts and minds will follow.

I agree with what you are saying except the following -



I do not know of anyone or anybody that said this. I do hear people denouncing the looting and property crime and how that is hurting small businesses, but I have not heard one report or one person saying that looting and property crime was more important than the deaths of any of these people.

Well actually you do. Any news story, any politician who starts our with comment on looting, burning, lawlessness with out mentioning the victims and the victimizers of racist law enforcement. Those are the one that "trump" human victims with property rights. Or mention the victims in an aside or at the end of their screed against protestors. The same ones by and large who want the elderly to die of covid, who don't care if workers compelled to work in restaurants or slaughter houses have safe conditions or not.

black crime is caused the same way that white crime is caused: by criminals who network with other criminals approaching people to recruit them into the network to make easy money as long as you are willing to keep your mouth shut and not question the morality/legality of what's going on.


You're the one who is comparing concern for property with concern for people. There is no comparison. They are both bad and they both feed into each other. You can't have respect for people without respect for property and vice versa. Clearly you understand how violence against property follows from violence against people, but you don't seem to understand how the reverse happens as well. Both are bad and both need to stop. Neither is justifiable. There is no lesser evil to choose because even a lesser evil is an evil that leads to worse evils.


No, that 'living wage' BS is nothing but pro-inflationary socialism in disguise. It's time to start calling out inflation as causing the misery of poverty and driving the perpetuation of racism. Without inflation, people can save money and become prosperous in any area, however poor. This is because low prices on property and goods allow people to afford what they need and save more, which gives them a future to preserve and live for.

When people start running out of money because wages and thus prices are going up, they start stressing and freaking out and tensions ultimately rise to the point of crime, violent conflictual attitudes between people and police, etc. If you want to have a peaceful society for all classes, you have to stop pushing the economy to raise wages.