Athiests and homosexuals

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Is it possible for athiests and/or homosexuals to avoid punishment in the afterlife? Either way, could you please provide some source such as quotes from the Tanakh or Talmud?

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Type: Question • Score: 4 • Views: 751 • Replies: 31

[+4] - InfraBlue - 05/14/2020It's erotic poetry right smack in the book from which [i]you[/i] pick and choose which parts to accept and reject, depending on whether they suit your personal values and preferences, a way for you...
[+3] - InfraBlue - 05/15/2020You didn't want to assume "the worst," but yet you guessed that I am a person who picks and chooses which parts of the Bible to accept and reject, depending on whether they suit my...
[+3] - farmerman - 05/19/2020well there is a difference tween us Ll. The only orifice from which I choose to speak is my mouth. You instead,are bi-orificial. Congrats, I suppose.

@Shikomu,

For most Atheists there is no afterlife.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Could you give some source, such as a quote from the Tanakh or Talmud?

1 Reply

@Shikomu,

Shikomu wrote:

Could you give some source, such as a quote from the Tanakh or Talmud?

No. I can't. But what do Atheists care about what is written in religious texts?

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Just want something more concrete than a statement that could be seen as opinion.

2 Replies

@Shikomu,

And you think the Talmud is more "concrete" than an opinion?

There are lots of religious texts. You can pick any of them.

0 Replies

@Shikomu,

Shikomu wrote:

Is it possible for athiests and/or homosexuals to avoid punishment in the afterlife? Either way, could you please provide some source such as quotes from the Tanakh or Talmud?

One of these will do the trick. Also, serial killers and Republicans use these legal reprieves to get out of divine punishment.

1 Reply

@tsarstepan,

Why would you ever want to get out of "divine" punishment?

After all, it is divine.

0 Replies

@Shikomu,

Shikomu wrote:

Just want something more concrete than a statement that could be seen as opinion.

I was thinking recently about how much faith atheists have in the permanent cessation of consciousness following death, yet they don't think of it as 'faith,' even though there is obviously no way to prove that consciousness doesn't continue in some form after death.

As for your question about homosexuality, the issue isn't really homosexuality specifically but rather all forms of pleasure-seeking that are prioritized over higher concerns. Since being homosexual doesn't automatically cause a person to prioritize pleasure any more than some heterosexual hedonist, you can't say that homosexuality in and of itself is something that causes people to go to hell, i.e. because all forms of temptation can lead to hell, not just homosexual desires.

In Buddhist philosophy, detachment is prescribed as the path to liberation from samsara ('the cycles of birth and death'), which is maintained by attachments and desires. Buddhism prescribes a 'middle way,' that is similar to the Christian path of confession and repentance for sin in an ongoing struggle against temptation/sin. In other words, we can't expect to achieve perfection, so we have to live with the fact that we go on sinning (or at least living with the temptation to), even while we are aware of it and sorry for it and praying for forgiveness and deliverance from temptation/evil.

0 Replies

I don't very much about the Talmud, my religious education was from a decidedly Christian perspective. My understanding is that the Tanakh corresponds to what Christians call the "Old Testament" (minus the Torah... or the first 5 books).

The fear of sex is a Christian thing. There is nothing in the Old Testament that forbids or even criticizes sex for pleasure. In fact, the Old Testament allows prostitution.

The Old Testament is against homosexuality; specifically so in a couple of places.

The God of the Old Testament is fine with men having sex with women. Of course, men can't have sex with a woman who belongs to another man.

The Christian God is much more repressed. Some say the Christian God allows a man to enjoy sex with his wife. Others (including some here) believe that a man can only have sex for the purpose of procreation and even then he can't enjoy it.

Personally, I think the Christian God has a stick up His ass. Why would a good God create us with such responsive genitals if He didn't want us to enjoy using them?

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

The Christian God is much more repressed. Some say the Christian God allows a man to enjoy sex with his wife. Others (including some here) believe that a man can only have sex for the purpose of procreation and even then he can't enjoy it.

Read my post above. It's about prioritizing pleasure over more important things when you're supposed to be sacrificing pleasure in favor of those more important things. Pleasure itself is inevitable when your priorities are straight and you are making the right sacrifices instead of the wrong ones.

The work ethic is fundamentally about getting through what needs to be done, even though there may not be immediate pleasure in doing so, or when you don't foresee pleasure/happiness/joy in work until you are in the middle of it.

Quote:

Personally, I think the Christian God has a stick up His ass. Why would a good God create us with such responsive genitals if He didn't want us to enjoy using them?

It doesn't take a PhD in biology to understand that genital nerve response is an evolutionary adaptation to stimulate procreation.

The problem with it is that humans gain the ability to choose pleasure in a way that sacrifices the greater good OR to sacrifice pleasure in order to prioritize a greater good.

So if you look at the story of Onan, it's really about him choosing sexual pleasure over sexual duty. Onan had his priorities mixed up and made the wrong sacrifice.

1 Reply

@livinglava,

I don't know what "more important things" you are talking about.

If you have time for Able2know, then you have time for sex (I am locked in my house right now... but that is why God gave us pornography).

1 Reply

Excerpt, Song of Solomon

7 How beautiful your sandaled feet,
O prince’s daughter!
Your graceful legs are like jewels,
the work of an artist’s hands.
2
Your navel is a rounded goblet
that never lacks blended wine.
Your waist is a mound of wheat
encircled by lilies.
3
Your breasts are like two fawns,
like twin fawns of a gazelle.
4
Your neck is like an ivory tower.
Your eyes are the pools of Heshbon
by the gate of Bath Rabbim.
Your nose is like the tower of Lebanon
looking toward Damascus.
5
Your head crowns you like Mount Carmel.
Your hair is like royal tapestry;
the king is held captive by its tresses.
6
How beautiful you are and how pleasing,
my love, with your delights!
7
Your stature is like that of the palm,
and your breasts like clusters of fruit.
8
I said, “I will climb the palm tree;
I will take hold of its fruit.”
May your breasts be like clusters of grapes on the vine,
the fragrance of your breath like apples,
9
and your mouth like the best wine.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

I don't know what "more important things" you are talking about.

It's a simple principle: take food, for example: you can choose between candy or something nutritious. If candy gives you more pleasure, you might choose that instead of the more nutritious food, but if you are wise, you will choose the nutritious food and sacrifice the candy.

You make sacrifices for the greater good. Pleasure happens one way or the other, whatever you choose; but sacrificing pleasure for the greater good means less harm overall in the long run.

Quote:

If you have time for Able2know, then you have time for sex (I am locked in my house right now... but that is why God gave us pornography).

Pornography is sexual candy (more like crack, actually). Sexuality is connected to the totality of the life course, including how you work, what kind of family you have, and how you experience life beyond sex.

When you prioritize pleasure, whether it's sexual pleasure or some other kind of pleasure, you're training your mind to avoid things that seem less immediately pleasurable, but ultimately do more good and don't actually deprive you of pleasure because pleasure occurs either way regardless.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

Excerpt, Song of Solomon

7 How beautiful your sandaled feet,
O prince’s daughter!
Your graceful legs are like jewels,
the work of an artist’s hands.
2
Your navel is a rounded goblet
that never lacks blended wine.
Your waist is a mound of wheat
encircled by lilies.
3
Your breasts are like two fawns,
like twin fawns of a gazelle.
4
Your neck is like an ivory tower.
Your eyes are the pools of Heshbon
by the gate of Bath Rabbim.
Your nose is like the tower of Lebanon
looking toward Damascus.
5
Your head crowns you like Mount Carmel.
Your hair is like royal tapestry;
the king is held captive by its tresses.
6
How beautiful you are and how pleasing,
my love, with your delights!
7
Your stature is like that of the palm,
and your breasts like clusters of fruit.
8
I said, “I will climb the palm tree;
I will take hold of its fruit.”
May your breasts be like clusters of grapes on the vine,
the fragrance of your breath like apples,
9
and your mouth like the best wine.

I'm guessing you are a person who picks and chooses which parts of the Bible to accept and reject, depending on whether they suit your personal values and preferences.

What does this passage mean to you? Is it just a way for you to be confrontational toward religious people about sensuality, or do you actually reflect on why you would post it?

1 Reply

@livinglava,

Quote:

It's a simple principle: take food, for example: you can choose between candy or something nutritious. If candy gives you more pleasure, you might choose that instead of the more nutritious food, but if you are wise, you will choose the nutritious food and sacrifice the candy.

You are willing to **** around on Able2know. But you are unwilling to **** around with women.

I fail to see the moral difference (although I am flattered that you choose to **** around with me over women.) If it is just a matter of doing something frivolous over something you really should be doing... you spend an awfully large amount of time here.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

You are willing to **** around on Able2know. But you are unwilling to **** around with women.

Whenever you post sleazy-sounding stuff like this, it gives me the creeps. You come across like some kind of womanizing chauvinist.

Quote:

I fail to see the moral difference (although I am flattered that you choose to **** around with me over women.) If it is just a matter of doing something frivolous over something you really should be doing... you spend an awfully large amount of time here.

I need to find other forums, but nowadays many seem to be private and/or inactive.

I don't know what it takes to get the quality of discussion up to a reasonable level. It seems like people like you are just in it to punish people like me for having views you disagree with.

0 Replies

@livinglava,

It's erotic poetry right smack in the book from which you pick and choose which parts to accept and reject, depending on whether they suit your personal values and preferences, a way for you to be confrontational toward people, religious or otherwise, about sensuality. Touché.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

It's erotic poetry right smack in the book from which you pick and choose which parts to accept and reject, depending on whether they suit your personal values and preferences, a way for you to be confrontational toward people, religious or otherwise, about sensuality. Touché.

I am interested in people's actual views on things and what they understand as the deeper purpose in this or some other Bible passage or other text.

It seems, however, that you are a person who likes to confront religious people with a part of the Bible you think will force them to accept liberal sexuality as somehow being validated in the Bible here.

I didn't want to assume the worst, so I asked you to explain your deeper interpretation and motive in posting it.

1 Reply

@livinglava,

You didn't want to assume "the worst," but yet you guessed that I am a person who picks and chooses which parts of the Bible to accept and reject, depending on whether they suit my personal values and preferences, and then go on to ask if it is just a way for me to be confrontational toward religious people about sensuality, or if I actually reflect on why I would post it.

Yeah, right.

2 Replies

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