1
   

The coronavirus vaccine was already prepared and ready before the 'outbreak' even began.

 
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 05:55 am
@BillRM,
You’re talking ****, Carthage was destroyed as a punishment for opposing Rome. As was the case back then most of the people would have been sold into slavery.

That’s a far cry from the industrial slaughter perpetrated on a group of people whose only crime was being born Jewish.

Holocaust denial is truly evil, denying the moon landings is just silly, there is a huge difference.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 06:31 am
@izzythepush,
Nonsense as no one was interest in infants or children or older people for that matter as slaves and they was killed by having swords run through them by at least the hundreds of thousands.

Izzythepush you are remarkable for a European in how little you had shown to know about history in Europe.

We been killings other humans in large large numbers long before the 1930s or even the wide use of technology beyond the sword.

Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 06:47 am
I don't know of anyone who routinely denies the holocaust of slavery and the slave trade. Denying the holocaust of "the Final Solution" and the slaughter of millions of Jews, Roma, Slavs and homosexuals in a matter of a few years, however, is a cottage industry these days.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 07:40 am
@BillRM,
Just because you cannot see the difference between the industrial slaughter of the third reich and the war tactics practiced two thousand years ago doesn’t mean there isn’t a huge difference.

Your knowledge of history is almost as execrable as your knowledge of English.

The Holocaust happened long after the Age of Enlightenment, when we were supposed to be better than that.

Nobody is claiming the Romans weren’t very cruel and harsh they were in the business of empire building not creating a supposed master race.

The only reason you cant see a difference is your complete lack of humanity, which is why you’re so blasé about the impact of child pornography on its victims.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 08:40 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

LOL playing with such people can be mildly amusing for a short period of time but not beyond that ,an once more faking such a program would require technology and resources beyond moon landings an would leave thousands of people in the know around the planet who in their thousands shut up for fifty years or so.

Why is it important to deny that the moon landings were faked if they weren't? Doesn't truth stand on its own? Or do we have to insist on truth against deniers? Ultimately what does it matter if people believe the moon landings were faked or not?
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 08:45 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

The rockets upper stages was seem by ten of thousands of people in earth orbit with back yard telescopes along with leaving earth orbit when they was ready to head for the moon.

Sorry but from the Russians military to millions with low end telescopes there is zero question that the moon land programs occur for the simple reason to fake it would have been a few thousands time harder then going to the moon.

Are you more interested in getting people to acquiesce that the moon landings are indubitable, or in considering how people with backyard telescopes could be wrong?

E.g. wouldn't it be possible to shoot the rocket up for the benefit of backyard telescope viewers without actually sending anything up in the rocket? I'm not saying that is what happened necessarily, just that it's possible.

What is so bad about just admitting that things can't ultimately be directly verified, instead of insisting on corroborating the status quo narrative?
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 03:55 pm
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:

BillRM wrote:

LOL playing with such people can be mildly amusing for a short period of time but not beyond that ,an once more faking such a program would require technology and resources beyond moon landings an would leave thousands of people in the know around the planet who in their thousands shut up for fifty years or so.

Why is it important to deny that the moon landings were faked if they weren't? Doesn't truth stand on its own? Or do we have to insist on truth against deniers? Ultimately what does it matter if people believe the moon landings were faked or not?



First this nonsense is an insult to the millions of men women who over decades work to made the dream of leaving the earth for the moon come true, next it is an insult to anyone who believe in logic, next it is an insult to the brave men who risk their lives in landing unproven crafts on the moon surface far from any possible help.
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2020 05:10 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Quote:

Why is it important to deny that the moon landings were faked if they weren't? Doesn't truth stand on its own? Or do we have to insist on truth against deniers? Ultimately what does it matter if people believe the moon landings were faked or not?

First this nonsense is an insult to the millions of men women who over decades work to made the dream of leaving the earth for the moon come true, next it is an insult to anyone who believe in logic, next it is an insult to the brave men who risk their lives in landing unproven crafts on the moon surface far from any possible help.

No, you can't use the complaint of insult to emotionally blackmail people into accepting things they are honestly skeptical of and not just questioning as a way of harassing others, e.g. anti-Semitic holocaust denialism.

If that were the case, then any criminal could go around saying that it's insulting to be investigated for crime and make the police leave them alone.

Besides, the people who worked on those projects should be glad to field any questions aroused by skepticism because doing so honors the fundamental spirit of science.

Arguing against questioning also dishonors the same people you mention by implying that they are superficial liars hiding a hoax. Assuming it was not a hoax, which I do, it shouldn't insult anyone that people suspect it of being one, because it is just a testament to how unfathomable a project it really is.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 28 Mar, 2020 04:40 pm
@livinglava,
If you can not see the illogical of not believing events that to fake would have take far far far more resources to attempt to fake then to had just go to the moon I feel sorry for you.

Next if you do not see the insult to the men who did risk their lives to give any credit to those insane theories I also feel sorry for you.

snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Mar, 2020 04:46 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

If you can not see the illogical of not believing events that to fake would have take far far far more resources to attempt to fake then to had just go to the moon I feel sorry for you.

Next if you do not see the insult to the men who did risk their lives to give any credit to those insane theories I also feel sorry for you.




I don’t
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Mar, 2020 05:50 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

BillRM wrote:

If you can not see the illogical of not believing events that to fake would have take far far far more resources to attempt to fake then to had just go to the moon I feel sorry for you.

Next if you do not see the insult to the men who did risk their lives to give any credit to those insane theories I also feel sorry for you.




I don’t


Well Buzz the second man who walk on the moon did not feel as you seem to as in his now old age knocked down one of those non believers who got into his face calling him a coward and a liar” over his part in the first moon landing.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Mar, 2020 06:20 pm
@BillRM,
Bill did you understand my post? I was just saying I don’t feel sorry for livinglava .
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Mar, 2020 08:43 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

If you can not see the illogical of not believing events that to fake would have take far far far more resources to attempt to fake then to had just go to the moon I feel sorry for you.

Next if you do not see the insult to the men who did risk their lives to give any credit to those insane theories I also feel sorry for you.

Do you understand the logic of Schrodinger's Cat being tentatively both alive and dead until the moment the outcome is determined?

That is how scientific knowledge is supposed to work in general. You know that you don't have direct positive proof of something, so you tentatively accept multiple possibilities without fully accepting or rejecting any.

So what you are saying about the moon landings being more difficult to fake than to actually achieve may be a reason to believe they were real, but that is not positive proof; so if you are really rigorous from a positivistic standpoint, you have to acknowledge that Occam's Razor (or whatever you call the logic you are applying about the faking being more difficult than doing) is not sufficient to provide positive proof.

In fact, you have to acknowledge that photos can be faked, video can be faked, rockets can be shot up really high and seen in telescopes without necessarily being filled with people and equipment, etc.

All those exercises in alternative hypotheses do not and cannot prove that the moon missions were faked, nor do they even prove they are less likely to be real. All they do is provide a reason that evidence could be faked and thus that all the photos, videos, etc. are not positive proof of anything.

Lacking positive proof doesn't mean you can't believe what you want. E.g. before space missions were sent around the moon, there was no positive proof that the moon wasn't purple on the far side, but it was as improbable to believe that as it was to believe that the moon was made out of cheese. So there is reasoning and estimations based on likelihood and realism, etc. but those are all different than positive proof.

So once you get comfortable with having different standards of proof, you can believe something on one level, yet on another level realize that your belief must be tentative because you don't have positive proof.

Then, because your acceptance is tentative based on a lack of positive proof, you can explore alternative hypotheses without believing those either. In other words, you can theorize about Schrodinger's Cat being both alive and dead at the same time without dismissing either possibility.

What you do is like arguing that the cat is alive because there is air in the box and the cat has only been in there five minutes and the gun isn't loaded or whatever, which are all good reasons, but positive proof doesn't occur until you actually open the box and observe the cat directly.
0 Replies
 
 

 
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