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Understanding the Coronavirus response. Shifting the peak

 
 
Reply Wed 11 Mar, 2020 09:28 pm
I think the authorities are doing a horrible job communicating with the public about the coronavirus response. My brother is in public health, and he explained why there is a good case for canceling public events and trips.

The issue is hospital beds (and ventilators, supplies etc.)

It is a fact that tens of millions of Americans will likely get the corona virus; it is a new very contagious virus and we have no immunity. It is also true that for most of us it will be mild.

But if 20 million Americans have the virus and only 10% need to be hospitalized... that is 2 million extra hospital beds. I say "extra" because the normal number of sick and injured people aren't going anywhere, and corona virus beds need to be isolated (so you don't give sick people who don't have coronavirus a new potentially serious problem).

As I understand it, what they are trying to do is minimize a crisis of hospital beds. They can do this by slowing down the spread until human beings start to develop herd immunity (and at some point a vaccine). Lots of people will get sick... but hopefully you can spread it out so that not everyone is sick at the same time.

My real point of this thread is this. The messaging about Coronavirus is horrible.. They should really be doing a much better job at communicating with the public.
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Type: Question • Score: 6 • Views: 351 • Replies: 14
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Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Mar, 2020 09:56 pm
If you plan on making some sort of medical statement, at least treat us with respect and tell us which coronavirus has you concerned.

The SARS one? The MERS version? The common cold type? Would this be about the latest addition, going by the name of COVID-19?

(Co Vi D 19 is the complete breakdown of the name)


At any rate, stopping travel, especially at this point is rather meaningless. The illness is here. It's spreading. Keep washing your hands.

Yes, the delivery of information is dreadful. As a person with some level of intelligence, you can find information. You can convey it to others in a calm, dignified manner.


Or you can hop on a horse and ride through town shouting:
The virus is coming, the virus is coming!
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 Mar, 2020 10:00 pm
@Sturgis,
I thought it was obvious. I am talking about the current pandemic, covid19.

If it is true that stopping travel would slow the spread of covid19. And, if this would minimize a crisis of hospital beds... would you agree that this is worthwhile?

It is not about stopping the spread... it is about slowing the spread.
Sturgis
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 Mar, 2020 10:02 pm
@maxdancona,
I'm not one for panic.


maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Mar, 2020 10:09 pm
@Sturgis,
Sturgis wrote:

I'm not one for panic.


I am not for panic either. Which is why I wish the authorities would communicate better. They are giving us mixed messages; we need extreme measures... but don't panic.

If the authorities provide a good rationale for cutting travel and cancelling public events, I will support them. My brother (who has actual expertise in public health) is giving me that rationale clearly.

For some reason, the authorities are giving a very confused message. I wonder if they don't trust the public. It is clear that public health experts are saying in private that public events should be canceled. Getting the NBA to cancel games means that somebody is making a persuasive argument.

Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Mar, 2020 10:19 pm
@maxdancona,
New York Governor Cuomo looks terrified!

Speaking of Cuomo, how about this for mixed messaging...
He has announced a "containment zone" for New Rochelle. Even called in the National Guard. Sounds serious. Not to worry though, people are free to come and go as they please.

0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 12 Mar, 2020 03:16 am
maxdancona wrote:
As I understand it, what they are trying to do is minimize a crisis of hospital beds. They can do this by slowing down the spread until human beings start to develop herd immunity (and at some point a vaccine). Lots of people will get sick... but hopefully you can spread it out so that not everyone is sick at the same time.

I doubt that we will achieve herd immunity until after we have a vaccine.

But you are correct on the desirability of slowing the spread of the disease because of the limited number of hospital beds.

If everyone is sick at once, we will not have enough hospital beds (and ventilators, for the extremely ill) to treat everyone. Lots of people will die from lack of treatment because we simply don't have enough equipment to treat everyone at once.

If we can manage to slow the spread of the pandemic, the first people to get sick will get through the illness in time to free up hospital beds and ventilators for the second round of people who get sick, who will get through the illness in time to free up hospital beds and ventilators for the third round of people who get sick, etc.

We'll likely not slow the spread of the disease enough to save everyone, but the more we slow the spread of the disease, the more lives we will save.
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Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Mar, 2020 06:59 am
I agree - the communication is poor - is it that the government officials think they are so much more intelligent than the general public? Do they think we are unable to understand?

What is going on now is causing panic - I went to go to the store to get paper towels and toliet paper not to stock up just to get a normal supply - I was down to one roll of paper towels - fortunately I have a half dozen or so of TP because there is not one roll of TP in any store.

What the f^? I hear people are buying so many crazy amounts? One DJ on the radio station said - yeah if my neighbors run out I will sell them some of mine for this crazy amount of money. Really now!

Fortunately we have enough that we should be fine until the stores restock.

I was in the grocery store just to pick up a few items - the lines were crazy - they were out of lots of things - shelves were empty - I am like really? I needed to get a dessert for Pi day at my kids school and just a couple of other items - even the self check out line was so long with people in line with full carriages - fortunately the guy that helps at self check out offered to take anyone with just a few items - you know how many that was? Just two of us. The poor guy that went before me said - I was just running out to get my kid some chicken nuggets for supper.

By not being clear - and canceling everything people feel as if their lives are in danger and want to hunker down in their homes rather than being logical and simply taking precautions.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Mar, 2020 07:33 am
I was forwarded this today. It's from a woman from my town who is currently in Italy:

Quote:
I am writing to you from Bergamo, Italy, at the heart of the coronavirus crisis. The news media in the US has not captured the severity of what is happening here. I am writing this post because each of you, today, not the government, not the school district, not the mayor, each individual citizen has the chance, today to take actions that will deter the Italian situation from becoming your own country’s reality. The only way to stop this virus is to limit contagion. And the only way to limit contagion is for millions of people to change their behavior today.

If you are in Europe or the US you are weeks away from where we are today in Italy.

I can hear you now. “It’s just a flu. It only affects old people with preconditions”

There are 2 reasons why Coronavirus has brought Italy to it’s knees. First it is a flu is devastating when people get really sick they need weeks of ICU – and, second, because of how fast and effectively it spreads. There is 2 week incubation period and many who have it never show symptoms.

When Prime Minister Conte announced last night that the entire country, 60 million people, would go on lock down, the line that struck me most was “there is no more time.” Because to be clear, this national lock down, is a hail mary. What he means is that if the numbers of contagion do not start to go down, the system, Italy, will collapse.

Why? Today the ICUs in Lombardy are at capacity – more than capacity. They have begun to put ICU units in the hallways. If the numbers do not go down, the growth rate of contagion tells us that there will be thousands of people who in a matter of a week? two weeks? who will need care. What will happen when there are 100, or a 1000 people who need the hospital and only a few ICU places left?

On Monday a doctor wrote in the paper that they have begun to have to decide who lives and who dies when the patients show up in the emergency room, like what is done in war. This will only get worse.

There are a finite number of drs, nurses, medical staff and they are getting the virus. They have also been working non-stop, non-stop for days and days. What happens when the drs, nurses and medical staff are simply not able to care for the patients, when they are not there?

And finally for those who say that this is just something that happens to old people, starting yesterday the hospitals are reporting that younger and younger patients – 40, 45, 18, are coming in for treatment.

You have a chance to make a difference and stop the spread in your country. Push for the entire office to work at home today, cancel birthday parties, and other gatherings, stay home as much as you can. If you have a fever, any fever, stay home. Push for school closures, now. Anything you can do to stop the spread, because it is spreading in your communities – there is a two week incubation period – and if you do these things now you can buy your medical system time.

And for those who say it is not possible to close the schools, and do all these other things, locking down Italy was beyond anyone’s imagination a week ago.

Soon you will not have a choice, so do what you can now.

Please share.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Mar, 2020 07:53 am
https://preview.redd.it/apxxmlc4kfm41.jpg?width=960&auto=webp&s=f818d9fcb813bfc311d53a261496fd41e6a5a3ba
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izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Mar, 2020 07:58 am
Over here we're told the main reason for cancelling large scale gatherings is the strain on resources, not the risk of infection.

Over here public gathering of 500+ require certain medical staff to be in attendance, paramedics and the like. Cancelling such events frees those workers up for the front line.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Mar, 2020 12:48 pm
My daughter's high school in Cambridge MA has just been cancelled for the next two weeks.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Mar, 2020 01:26 pm
@maxdancona,
My daughter's private school in Weymouth did as well

We have (at this point) no known cases of the virus in our county

My guess from the communications we have been getting from the school is that all schools in the state are probably being told to do this.

They are going to do online schooling

and the spring sports are delayed two weeks
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Mar, 2020 02:15 pm
@Linkat,
I have changed my mind on this. I think this makes sense.

The public health experts are worried that health care systems are going to be swamped if the virus spreads too quickly. From talking to my brother, this is a very reasonable thing to be worried about. If we run out of hospital beds, many more people die.

The quickest way for the virus to spread is large groups of fresh humans interacting in a small space.

I think these closures are logical.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Sun 15 Mar, 2020 12:12 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

But if 20 million Americans have the virus and only 10% need to be hospitalized... that is 2 million extra hospital beds. I say "extra" because the normal number of sick and injured people aren't going anywhere, and corona virus beds need to be isolated (so you don't give sick people who don't have coronavirus a new potentially serious problem).

Maybe someone should come up with a simple way to modify a body bag to work as a quarantine bivvy-tent for corona patients, who could then be ventilated, cleaned, etc. without contamination between the tent/bag and outside the tent/bag.

Sorry to mention body-bags. It's just that there are probably enough of those already, as compared with trying to manufacture a bunch of specially-designed quarantine tents for use in hospitals.
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