It’s a discussion I’ve heard being had in different forms in different forums. Should anything be off limits for someone who professes to be a comedian ( and to a lesser extent, those people who just think they’re funny)?
Lately one form I’ve heard the discussion taking has had to do with certain comics complaining that liberal arts universities rescind their invitations to speak based on their condemnation of certain jokes, or certain attitudes expressed in jokes. Chris Rock and Bill Maher have both said they will never speak at universities again because of this “suppression of free speech”.
But closer to home, the way the subject comes up is when I find myself repulsed by something someone else finds funny. On a podcast or XM talk show to which I was listening, one of the hosts quipped that she didn’t want to part with her long time cat companion, so when she died, she put her body in her freezer. They gasped and asked how long and she said about a year now. Up to this point, I was okay with it whether it was extreme attachment to her pet being seriously expressed, or if she was making a slightly sick joke. But it was just the windup. The punchline was that she had just about decided how she was going to prepare her old friend to be eaten. Big laughs.
Granted, I’m going through some stuff with a pet in declining health, so I may be primed for disgust at such a “joke”. But in honesty, I think I’d be nauseated at it regardless.
It seems to me there are just basic attributes we share in common- nothing to do with biology - that make us recognizable to each other as ‘human’... that allow us to be able to say “we have humanity in common”. It seems to me that sometimes what’s passed as “irreverent “, or “politically incorrect” ( I’m not talking about ‘blue’ humor or dirty jokes) pushes human decency right off the stage.
“ I’d piss on the piled-up bodies of gun violence victims.”
Times have changed
And we've often rewound the clock
Since the Puritans got a shock
When they landed on Plymouth Rock
If today
Any shock they should try to stem
'Stead of landing on Plymouth Rock
Plymouth Rock would land on them
In olden days, a glimpse of stocking
Was looked on as something shocking
But now, God knows
Anything goes
Good authors, too, who once knew better words
Now only use four-letter words
Writing prose
Anything goes
If driving fast cars you like
If low bars you like
If old hymns you like
If bare limbs you like
If Mae West you like
Or me undressed you like
Why, nobody will oppose
When ev'ry night the set that's smart is
Intruding at nudist parties
In studios
Anything goes
When Missus Ned McLean (God bless her)
Can get Russian reds to "yes" her
Then I suppose
Anything goes
When Rockefeller still can hoard en-
-ough money to let Max Gordon
Produce his shows
Anything goes
The world has gone mad today
And good's bad today
And black's white today
And day's night today
And that gent today
You gave a cent today
Once had several chateaus
When folks who still can ride in jitneys
Find out Vanderbilts and Whitneys
Lack baby clothes
Anything goes
When Sam Goldwyn can with great conviction
Instruct Anna Sten in diction
Then 'Nana' shows
Anything goes
When you hear that Lady Mendl standing up
Now turns a handspring landing up-
On her toes
Anything goes
Just think of those shocks you've got
And those knocks you've got
And those blues you've got
From those news you've got
And those pains you've got
(If any brains you've got)
From those little radios
So Missus R., with all her trimmings
Can broadcast abed from Simmons
Cause Franklin knows
Anything goes
Nicely done. I’m not sure Porter covered the entire subject, but it’s definitely a toe-tapper.
0 Replies
edgarblythe
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Mon 25 Nov, 2019 07:24 am
I believe everything should be on the table, generally speaking, but the public will have limits to what it applauds and at times will shut you down for your remarks, as it doesn't always recognize motives, just the end result. Some comics can say almost anything and get away with it, while others get blackballed for relatively small transgressions. Much of it gets based on the perception of the one making the joke.
0 Replies
neptuneblue
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Mon 25 Nov, 2019 07:35 am
Shock jocks aren't new. Comedy has evolved to include a wide range of subjects, some benign, some over the top.
Henny Youngman made a fortune by insulting his own wife. Gallagher sledgehammered watermelons. Sam Kinison screamed his entire set. George Carlin listed Seven Words You Cannot Say On Television. Richard Prior made fun of his own debacle blowing himself up freebasing cocaine. Joan Rivers "Can We Talk" focused on how raunchy a woman can get. Ellen Degeneres refuses to swear or be raunchy in any way, proving comedy can be highly successful without resorting to shock jock-ism.
The list goes on, too many to mention.
Two great tv shows deal with the making of comedy, there's "I'm Dying Up Here" on Showtime and "The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel" on Prime Video that uniquely portray how difficult doing comedy really is.
So, yeah, in comedy, pretty much anything goes. There's the 15 minute claim to fame people and then there's the comedians that can weather the test of time. Does some of it go way to far? Sure, but you have a choice to not think their brand of comedy isn't funny. You can heckle or get up and refuse to be part of their audience. You can try to use reason but that's normally futile. People turn that around on you, insulting you for lacking a sense of humor.
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snood
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Mon 25 Nov, 2019 07:37 am
Two very thoughtful responses
0 Replies
McGentrix
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Mon 25 Nov, 2019 09:10 am
Some people think that comedy is the only true way to make honest commentary on a society. Making people uncomfortable by speaking a truth about a societal condition, or being crude for the sake of being crude. There are many things about comedy that allows one to say things that would not be otherwise allowed by a conventional society contract.
Some examples:
and despite any political opinions, this was funny...
0 Replies
hightor
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Mon 25 Nov, 2019 09:49 am
There's a big difference between the comedy of Bob Hope and that of, well, the fellow in my avatar for example. I've never been to a real comedy club although I've seen some half-assed stand-up acts in variety shows. I know that watching a comic perform on TV is going to be a very different experience than watching the same act live in front of an audience of hip people. At a performance nervous laughter can itself provoke more laughter and it can become contagious — the audience may be laughing at the fact that they're laughing. It can all become very "meta".
Basically, I think all approaches to comedy should be allowed. It's just a fact of life that not everyone will find them funny.
Basically, I think all approaches to comedy should be allowed. It's just a fact of life that not everyone will find them funny.
Yes, and anyway - who gets to say what’s allowed and what’s not allowed?
I think some of my fascination is from a behavioral point of view. What makes some things funny to some and offensive to others? One side will say “You can’t take a joke”, while the other might suggest something lacking in the character of the ones laughing I’ve been in both groups.
I am always struck by the two different basic first reactions( they don’t cover everyone, and they overlap) to, say, seeing someone slip and take a hard fall. On one end of the spectrum, someone will think it’s the funniest thing they’ve seen in months, and belly laughs until they cry. On the other end, someone will wince in sympathetic pain and rush to check for injuries.
0 Replies
InfraBlue
1
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Mon 25 Nov, 2019 11:02 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
There's a big difference between the comedy of Bob Hope and that of, well, the fellow in my avatar for example.
Jeez, after all this time wondering who it was it just hit me, Lenny Bruce.
Thanks for the hint.
0 Replies
glitterbag
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Mon 25 Nov, 2019 11:06 am
This is a very interesting subject........my mind has just split off in a dozen different directions and I'm too scattered to even form a sentence. It's a lot to think about.......I need a little time to digest all this..(meaning the disorganization of my own thoughts right now).
0 Replies
edgarblythe
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Mon 25 Nov, 2019 11:07 am
In the 60s I loved Lenny Bruce. As I got more familiar with him in later years, I was less impressed. His "religion incorporated" seems like more a rant than comedy routine, after the first few sentences. But I always support his right to say the things he said and still find some of his stuff relevant. I still have a double vinyl album of his act in my collection.
I am a free speech purist. Comedy is especially sacred. Any comedian who has an audience has the right to say anything.
My reaponse to offensive comedy is similar to my reaponse to abortion. If you don't like offensove comedy, don't go see it.
The problem is when other people decide what comedy is too offensive for me to see.
0 Replies
hightor
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Mon 25 Nov, 2019 12:08 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
In the 60s I loved Lenny Bruce. As I got more familiar with him in later years, I was less impressed.
Oh yeah, I can definitely understand that and I sort of feel that way myself. I celebrate him for what he meant then. As the legal squeeze was put on him and his self-destructive habits took their inevitable toll he really became less funny and was more a Cassandra-like figure, desperate ly trying to wake people up. It was another of those self-induced tragedies that played out in front of our eyes.
I've just had a cat die, and I have to say I don't find it offensive, then again I don't find it at all funny either, so that's reason enough.
Personally I think it's all about targets, target the rich and powerful but leave the weak and vulnerable alone. That's not just how alternative comedy works it's how all comedy works.
Back in the 1970s we had a deluge of offensive racist comics who were mostly swept away by alternative comedy because their stuff isn't just offensive it's not funny either.
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