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Reimbursement of Withheld Benefits

 
 
meppwc
 
Reply Wed 13 Nov, 2019 07:30 am
The article(below) tells me that if you are penalized on social security payments due to excessive earnings accumulated before my FRA, that I will receive those fund back once I reach FRA. Is this true? If true, then how is it dispersed? Once I reach FRA will I need to take any action to receive those withholdings?

Maurie Backman – Motley Fool
Once your earnings exceed $18,240, you'll have $1 in benefits withheld for every $2 you make. That money isn't lost forever -- rather, whatever amount you have withheld will be added back into your benefits once you reach FRA.
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Nov, 2019 04:24 pm
@meppwc,
I have to admit that I never heard of such a thing. Keep researching this idea.
0 Replies
 
ekename
 
  3  
Reply Wed 13 Nov, 2019 06:11 pm
@meppwc,
That isn't what the words mean, you don't get that money back.

https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/10/26/here-are-the-2020-social-security-earnings-tests-l.aspx

These paragraphs are from the article you quoted:

Is it worth it to file early if you're still working?
As mentioned above, any benefits you have withheld due to the earnings test will be reinstated once you reach FRA, so you're not losing that money permanently. But if you file for Social Security before reaching FRA, you will face a permanent reduction in those benefits (unless you undo that decision by withdrawing your benefits application within a year of filing and repay all of the money you collected in Social Security).

Specifically, your benefits will be reduced by 6.67% a year for the first three years you file ahead of FRA, and then by 5% a year for each year after that. This means that if you're looking at an FRA of 67 but you file at 62, your benefits will be reduced by 30%. If your FRA is 67 and you file at 64, you'll lose 20% of your benefits.

This specific reduction has nothing to do with the earnings test. It's a penalty for filing early and applies regardless of whether you work or not. Therefore, if you're able to continue working in the years leading up to FRA, it could pay to hold off on benefits until then.

If you file early while holding down a job that pays more than what the earnings test allows for, you'll not only face a lifelong reduction in benefits but also be subject to the above-mentioned withholding.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Nov, 2019 06:21 pm
@ekename,

ekename wrote:


Thanks for the link. That was my understanding; just too lazy to go looking for it.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Wed 13 Nov, 2019 06:49 pm
@ekename,
Yes ekename, thanks for that.

Related to that.
I may be wrong, but it seems to me most people think they need to take their SS at either 62, 66, or 70.

In reality you can take it any year in between, and the benefit will be adjust for each age.

Sorry, the below may not be accurate to the exact present, but you get the idea.

https://assets.website-files.com/5734e1cfc0ca4c4e3d78adb4/5ce30a6a5bbad7eafa5d3b3e_when%20to%20file%20for%20social%20security%20retirement.png
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Wed 13 Nov, 2019 06:50 pm
This chart shows your break even points.

https://g.foolcdn.com/image/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fg.foolcdn.com%2Feditorial%2Fimages%2F438206%2Fss-breakeven-62-66-70.PNG&w=700&op=resize
meppwc
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Nov, 2019 07:07 am
@chai2,
I did a bit more investigating. It is a long read but very informative.

Information below is from the AARP website
https://www.aarp.org/retirement/social-security/questions-answers/withholding-while-working/

QUESTION
Social Security is withholding money from my retirement benefit because I'm still working. Will I get that money back?

ANSWER:
Yes, but not in a tidy lump sum. What Social Security does instead is increase your benefit when you reach full retirement age to account for the previous withholding.
Full retirement age, or FRA, is when you become eligible for 100 percent of the benefit amount calculated from your lifetime earnings. (FRA is 66 and is gradually rising over the next several years to 67.) If you file before that, Social Security lowers the percentage of the benefit amount.
During this “early retirement” period you also forfeit benefits if you continue to work and your earnings exceed an annual limit. (In 2019 the cap is $17,640, and you lose $1 in benefits for every $2 in earnings above it.)

When you reach FRA, Social Security will begin making up for the withholding by giving you credit for the months when you lost benefits.

Suppose you claim Social Security when you turn 62. Your monthly benefit is $1,200 and you earn $25,000 annually through a part-time job. For the year, Social Security withholds $3,680 from your payments (half of the $7,360 by which you topped the earnings limit). That works out to 3.1 months of benefits lost, which Social Security rounds up to four.
If you continue to lose four months of benefits a year until you reach full retirement age, that’s 16 months of withheld benefits. When you turn 66, Social Security will reset your benefit as if you’d filed 32 months early rather than 48. (The difference, if you’re keeping score, is that you get 75 percent of your “full” benefit at 48 months early, 82.2 percent at 32 months.)
The extra years you worked will further boost your benefit payment if they rank among your 35 highest-earning years. This will increase your lifetime average for monthly income, the figure that is the basis of your benefit calculation, in turn raising your benefit amount.

Keep in mind
• The earnings limit only applies if you are under full retirement age. Social Security does not withhold any money from your benefits if you keep working after FRA.
• You won’t see the boost from that benefit reset immediately after your FRA birthday. Social Security will start the higher monthly payment the following January.

ekename
 
  3  
Reply Thu 14 Nov, 2019 09:10 pm
@meppwc,
I don't have a dog in this fight however if reliance on social security payments forms a significant part of your prospective income in retirement then I'd recommend expert advice.

Speaking of dogs, this sticks out like the proverbial:

(The difference, if you’re keeping score, is that you get 75 percent of your “full” benefit at 48 months early, 82.2 percent at 32 months.)

Ergo, you don't get it back, you just get penalised less.

chai2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Nov, 2019 10:24 pm
@ekename,
ekename wrote:


(The difference, if you’re keeping score, is that you get 75 percent of your “full” benefit at 48 months early, 82.2 percent at 32 months.)

Ergo, you don't get it back, you just get penalised less.




Yeah, 48 months early translates to age 62
32 months to some odd number below FRA of 66.

From what I can make out what the OP is saying (from the article) is that if you made as in the example $7360 over the limit, half of that, or $3680 will be taken off your benefits, but of course you still have that $7360 you earned over the limit. And of course you keep all the money you earned up to the $17,640.

Honestly? When those amounts are put back in, the change in your social security check is going to be pretty small.
They're not "giving" back that $3680 that was taken out, they are now awarding you the percentage that $3680 would have earned you. No idea how that calculated. But it can't be a lot. At least for me not enough to worry about.

I've had to do some thinking about this for myself, as I'm turning 61 next month. What to do in another year? I stopped working full time several years ago, and just work as much as I want now. I can pretty much choose my own hours. If I worked every month, it's funny that what I normally make would take me right up to that limit. But I take weeks off here and there for travel.

I leaning towards not taking it immediately, as there is sufficient household income not to need it. If I become widowed any time before full retirement age, I'll just take it then and take whatever the increased amount would be depending on my age.

I don't really get this attitude where you would feel compelled to stop working past a certain earnings if you were enjoying your work, and chose to take SS early.

I mean, sure, you're having a buck taken off your social security check for every 2 dollars you earn over the limit, but for me in that situation, I see the glass as half full. I'm still making that extra buck then, right?

Everyone is different of course, but for what I do, which involves driving around, seeing people, seeing what's going on around the city, etc. is pleasant.

If I wasn't doing that, would I be sitting around the house? It's not like I'm being forced to work down in the mines. It's nice being productive.

I worked with a woman years ago that would only work each year until she got to that limit, then stop. It was fine for her because she loved to travel to Belieze, she was a minimilist type of person, so didn't need a lot, etc.

Then January would arrive, and she'd be back again.

I dunno, it just seemed sort of nit picky to me over a couple three thousand dollars.

Speaking of glass half full, this is really me.....

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f4/e8/e2/f4e8e25f7a49ac8c0f2178fade1b9107.jpg





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