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ESG (Environmental, Social, Governance) Investing

 
 
Reply Sat 26 Oct, 2019 02:56 pm
Can ESG investing save the planet and humanity from itself and each other?

Two examples tell me they can't:

1) Beyond Meat: Beyond Meat shot up in value after it's IPO, and you would think that would mean it will have all the operating capital it needs to expand and grow to produce maximum meat-replacement products and thus save the world from the environmental harm of meat.

Stocks go up and down based on speculation, however, so investors can use the Beyond Meat stock to grow their money, which they will then pull out of the inflated stock and use for other things, such as steak dinners and McDonalds stock. Just because investors can make money on veganism doesn't mean they aren't supporting meat industries by doing so.

2) Uber: Ride sharing can reduce the number of cars on the road, fuel burnt, pavement laid, and stimulate sprawl-reduction and reforestion, right? Maybe, depending on how people share rides and how local governments plan infrastructure and development.

But as far as stock investing goes, why would Uber be different than any other stock in terms of funneling money to people who will spend it on traditional single-occupant driving? Yes, Uber or any other company needs operating capital to pay for rides, share-scooters, share-bikes, etc. etc.; but nothing is preventing companies from milking its supply-chain to pay all their people to drive their own cars. Can you get a well-paying job making/selling scooters/bicycles and then spend the money on a car and pay other people in other businesses to drive their own cars as well? Sure you can, so it takes more than investing in Uber to reduce the number of cars on the roads.

So if ESG investing can't save the world, what is it good for? Well, it's better than investing in companies that eschew and discriminate against 'weirdo' culture like veganism and alternative transportation for sustainable climate.

What would work better, however, would be to boycott companies who shirk and/or fail at ethical behavior in various ways, but that would require preventing investors from buying up those stocks when they are falling due to divestment, and as long as their price-earnings ratio is going down due to prospective sales and revenues keeping up despite divestment by ethical investors, the temptation will be there for less-ethical investors to buy up those stocks and make the money that the ethical are eschewing.

So real change comes from either consumers boycotting unethical products/companies and/or rules/laws that prevent unethical products/activities from taking place at all.

Unfortunately, as long as unethical business has the money to pay government to obstruct such rules/laws, they will. What's more, they will whitewash/greenwash other laws/rules/policies that actually do harm and/or avert good.

For example, a Democrat senator recently proposed a cash4clunkers program to buy up old cars and subsidize their replacement with electric cars. Electric cars may be better than those driven by combustion, but pavement, lanes, and sprawl are not going to go down if the same number of cars stays on the roads, only they're electric.

So how do you invest in less cars, less pavement, and less sprawl; which ultimately cost less and generate less revenues and growth than everyone driving?
1) save money instead of investing it. Less growth means more people will make less money and thus need to use transit because they can't afford to drive their own vehicle.
2) invest in innovations that make transit better - only you can't really do this because the moment traditional companies see that there is money to be made in such innovations, they try to take over and control those markets. This has clearly happened with the autonomous-vehicle market, where all the big automotive players have now gotten involved and effectively slowed progress down to a trickle - while cashing in as much as possible on anyone willing to invest in moving progress forward.

Sorry for so much bad news in ethical investing, but money stimulates maintenance of the status quo for a reason; and its mostly because as long as there's more money to make by averting change than embracing it, it makes financial sense to invest money in blocking or thwarting such change.

So maybe these ESG investors are actually funding the very crusade against ethical change that will make them the most money by scuttling their interest in funding positive/ethical change.

https://www.npr.org/2019/10/26/771323268/as-investors-try-to-be-more-ethical-some-find-no-escape-from-businesses-they-det
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farmerman
 
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Reply Sat 26 Oct, 2019 05:09 pm
@livinglava,
a number of houses already trade in environmental responsibility based ETF's. I dont have a big position in them, but I use my Vanguard ETF's to play off some earnings in other areas and , since my background has been in environmental controls in mining and secondary recovery I like to specialize in the remediation end since it is a "lonely puppy" with environmentally concerned citizens. Entire new industries have been born and are still being born to "restore the environment" where its already been degraded and thats the position Ive taken in ETF's .
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Linkat
 
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Reply Mon 28 Oct, 2019 09:28 am
@livinglava,
There are mutual funds that are geared for just these sorts of things. There are environmentally responsible funds, there are socially conscience types of funds - so if you are so inclined and what to support these groups it is easy to find one. Mutual funds are a bit easier to invest in than say a stock in one company - just do your research and ensure you are also making a wise investment.

To be honest I am not sure how well they do financially - but they are definitely out there.
livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Oct, 2019 05:09 am
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:

There are mutual funds that are geared for just these sorts of things. There are environmentally responsible funds, there are socially conscience types of funds - so if you are so inclined and what to support these groups it is easy to find one. Mutual funds are a bit easier to invest in than say a stock in one company - just do your research and ensure you are also making a wise investment.

To be honest I am not sure how well they do financially - but they are definitely out there.

Although it is possible for business to achieve progress in some ways using investment capital, I am trying to show in this thread how it is more likely to use funds to thwart progress than actually pursue it.

This is most evident, imo, in investments into automated driving systems, ride sharing, scooters/bicycles, and other transportation alternatives that threaten the auto industry's current business model of selling as many personal vehicles as possible.

I think that if people invest in alternative transportation, the companies and investors that stand to lose revenues from progress will ostensibly invest in the progress, but they will do so in a way that actually seeks to thwart that progress by means of lobbying, public scare campaigns, delaying/slowing product development/deployment, etc.

I think the best way to manage money for progress is to save and not invest it. Not only is that the safest thing to do with money, it puts budgetary pressures on the economy that stimulate efforts to reduce waste, which is far better than recycling and other energy-hungry processes, which waste energy to appease the public conscience while pulling the wool over their eyes about how much resources are actually used/wasted.

What is really needed for conservation and sustainability is a more conservative industrial ethic where industrial processes are reduced and cut back as the public learns to do more with less. This model of economic behavior is loathed by bull economists who always want to stimulate more, driving business activity to generate big profits and robust bustling market activity, big cash/capital flows, etc.

Granted it is scary to think about economic activity becoming more anemic, but the challenge is how to get maximum quality out of an economy while reducing its quantities/footrprint as much as possible.

That is the path to real sustainability, and of course within that it is important to develop and adopt the most sustainable products and processes possible, but if investing in sustainability becomes a driver of bull investment, the resulting growth will undermine the goal of creating a more sustainable economy overall.
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