Vaping - does it make sense just to outlaw it?

Forums:
Email this Topic • Print this Page

Well Massachusetts is -
"Citing confirmed and suspected cases of severe lung disease associated with e-cigarettes and marijuana vaping products, Gov. Charlie Baker and state health officials Tuesday declared a public health emergency and banned the sales of all vaping products in Massachusetts for four months."

https://www.wcvb.com/article/gov-charlie-baker-vaping-announcement-massachusetts/29208739

Now I am completely against vaping so personally I do not have an issue with this - but is this a knee jerk reaction? What does Charlie know? He hasn't helped our illegal drug issues so is this a political move on his side?

It will likely cause those that have small business to go out of business. Is there enough support to show that banning these will help the public's safety? I know there many are saying it is not the legal products that are causing the health issues, but illegal products being used while vaping - is there enough evidence that health safety outweighs some individual's livelihood?

Some comments from these small businesses:
"It is going to put us out of business. I don’t know of any vape shops that will be able to stay open if they can’t sell products for four months..."
...the ban will not stop people from vaping, but it will push people to unregulated, less safe products sold on the black market.

https://www.masslive.com/news/2019/09/state-ban-on-vape-products-will-force-small-businesses-to-close-permanently-shop-owners-say.html

Topic Stats
Top Replies
Link to this Topic

Type: Question • Score: 7 • Views: 941 • Replies: 30

No top replies

@Linkat,

It does appear to be a bit over the top, extreme. It's perhaps an abundance of precaution; which, may be helpful. Since Massachusetts is taking a 4 month break, it may still return.

The recent news reports have turned this into the biggest and worst calamity since... well, in a long time.

In fairness, not much is known about long term vaping and it might be useful to find out. Also, find out what chemical/s are being used by those who are having problems. Are they using the legal vaping thingy or an underground, unregistered device? How much vaping do they do?

Here in New York State, flavored vapes are not allowed anymore. It seems to be aimed at those under 21. What a joke. Teens (and younger) have gotten cigarettes even with restrictions. The same will happen with vapes.

And of course much of it is political. Heck, here in N.Y. the previously very vocal anti-marijuana governor (Andrew Cuomo) is now pro-weed and is pushing for it to be legal food recreational use by next year. (he may be weighing another gubernatorial run in 2022).

Since vaping is relatively new, I don't think many businesses are going to close up. Hopefully they were/are/have been wise enough to stock other things as well. Keep in mind, small business owners moaned a lot when the age requirements went up for tobacco products and for booze prior to that.

I think a more intelligent option would be to do as was done with cigs and booze, set an age requirement. Sure, many will buy black market or get an adult to buy, but, some folks will not use it then.

Banning vapes is as idiotic as Prohibition was!

1 Reply

@Linkat,

Quote:

Now I am completely against vaping so personally I do not have an issue with this - but is this a knee jerk reaction?

Yup.

Quote:

What does Charlie know?

Not enough.

You'll see politicians do this, as if getting out there first is all that's important. I think the state board of health should compile and issue a "White Paper" outlining what is currently known and what is still unknown about commercial vaping products, black market products, vaping technology, and long term effects of vaping. This, accompanied by pertinent warnings about particularly risky behavior, would be more effective than this statewide ban.

0 Replies

@Sturgis,

Sturgis wrote:

Since vaping is relatively new, I don't think many businesses are going to close up. Hopefully they were/are/have been wise enough to stock other things as well. Keep in mind, small business owners moaned a lot when the age requirements went up for tobacco products and for booze prior to that.

These businesses are "vaping" shops so that is what they market and sell. Now granted I am not going to cry about them closing up I honestly cannot stand seeing them. But by putting this ban in place almost immediately gives them no notification to as you said - stock other things or market themselves as more than just a vape shop.

This is a total ban though not an age limit - which there already is an age limit.

One thing I heard someone say on the radio -there will be people upset about this ban and those that will be happy as a parent said well now I won't need to worry about my child vaping. Good point made by this person on the radio - aren't you as a parent supposed to police your child?

If it is illegal for your child to buy it and now it is illegal to sell, have vape products - what is the difference really for a child? Either way it is/was illegal?

I agree on the flavored crap - it is geared to hook kids and get them addicted.

0 Replies

@Linkat,

Linkat wrote:

Well Massachusetts is -
"Citing confirmed and suspected cases of severe lung disease associated with e-cigarettes and marijuana vaping products, Gov. Charlie Baker and state health officials Tuesday declared a public health emergency and banned the sales of all vaping products in Massachusetts for four months."

Sure it makes sense. There is a problem and your governor can be seen to be doing something.

Actually, I know of no health problems associated by legal products. There have been problems with black market products containing illegal additives. The executive order does not address this, because it's difficult to address a substance that is already illegal. But still, they did something to address the problem. Possibly sending some people into that black market, but still, they did something.

2 Replies

I'm generally reluctant to see increased government regulation of personal behavior, particularly in areas in which others are not directly harmed. However, I don't see any reason why government policy and law should give vaping products a better situation in relation to public behavior, where others may be affected, and economic liability for injuries caused, than it currently does to tobacco products.

1 Reply

@roger,

But does it make sense for the governor to go to this extreme?

Does he have enough facts to warrant banning all these products? No other state is doing so? How will he be able to compensate individuals whose livelihoods depend on this business and are not doing anything illegal and are fully following the law in the sale and marketing of their business?

Should he be banning all fast foods? We know that eating too much fast food is a very big health issue. Should he be banning the sale of all cigarettes? Alcohol? Soda?

Yes I can see doing something but has he considered the ramifications - at least give these businesses some sort of opportunity and time to do something.

To be honest - there should have been much more scrutiny prior to allowing these products in the first place - now you have established small businesses that are relying on this - they need to let their employees go and the owners themselves will be suffering financially.

3 Replies

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

I'm generally reluctant to see increased government regulation of personal behavior, particularly in areas in which others are not directly harmed. However, I don't see any reason why government policy and law should give vaping products a better situation in relation to public behavior, where others may be affected, and economic liability for injuries caused, than it currently does to tobacco products.

I agree completely with this. But putting an entire ban on something in such a short period of time, without enough facts just does not sit well. It is almost like guilty before being proven.

0 Replies

@roger,

roger wrote:

Actually, I know of no health problems associated by legal products.

Then you haven't been paying attention. Apparently, some of the people who have been hit with these mystery illnesses claim they have not been using the THC laced vaping products at all.

Quote:

But Krishnamoorthi pointed out that some of the patients who've gotten seriously ill have said that they've only vaped nicotine products. "Do we still need to be concerned about all e-cigarettes at this point? " he asked Schuchat.

Source

1 Reply

@Linkat,

Linkat wrote:

But does it make sense for the governor to go to this extreme?

Does he have enough facts to warrant banning all these products? No other state is doing so?

I bet he has 100% more facts in front of him than you do.

1 Reply

Just heard on the news that yet another vaping related death has just occurred & been reported.

Vaping is an interesting issue in that the potential sources are rather diverse. Are the causes so far to be found in the vaping instrument & process itself and/or in the various flavor and drugs (nicotine THC, etc. ) in the pellets used in them?

0 Replies

@Linkat,

Linkat wrote:

But does it make sense for the governor to go to this extreme?

No. People do risky things for pleasure all the time. There are roughly 20 people killed per year from parachute accidents. Are we going to outlaw people jumping out of perfectly good planes? Hundreds die each year in recreational boating accidents. Outlaw boats? The key is user awareness. The issue with tobacco is the industry actively fought educating their users on the risks involved. As long as the vaping industry is selling to consenting adults and advertising the risks appropriately, I don't see why there is any need to panic.

1 Reply

@engineer,

I think you put your finger on the key issue. Just what is the apparent health issue associating with vaping and what is its origin? So far I'm not aware that the vaping companies have acknowledged any risk: indeed they have claimed health benefits for reforming smokers. Are those claims valid?

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

If I were the owner of a vaping store, I would put signs up everywhere with all the latest news on the issue so my customers could make informed choices. Now if there were some risk to bystanders from second hand vape, I would feel differently.

1 Reply

@engineer,

I agree. It's an interesting unfolding situation.

0 Replies

@tsarstepan,

tsarstepan wrote:

Linkat wrote:

But does it make sense for the governor to go to this extreme?

Does he have enough facts to warrant banning all these products? No other state is doing so?

I bet he has 100% more facts in front of him than you do.

I doubt it is 100% but it is quite possible he has facts more than I do - but that is why I am questioning - how much facts does he have that is in my initial question.

He has not stated that he has additional facts that would warrant this. He has not provided any other facts to support a wide spread ban on this product. If he provided it I would not have an issue.

So unless there is more he is just not telling us - these are the quotes I have from him:

"The purpose of this public health emergency is to temporarily pause all sales of vaping products so that we can work with our medical experts to identify what is making people sick and how to better regulate these products to protect the health of our residents," Baker said.

This does not sound like he has any additional facts - he says himself - to identify what is making people sick - so he doesn't seem to know.

"The use of e-cigarettes and marijuana vaping products is exploding and we are seeing reports of serious lung illnesses, particularly in our young people," Baker said.

This is all the same information I have - so either he is not disclosing everything or else I know pretty much what he knows.

0 Replies

The one interesting thing I read was:

"In the absence of strong federal action especially by the FDA, states are being forced to make decisions to protect the health of children and adults from a vaping-related public health emergency," American Lung Association National President and CEO Harold Wimmer said in a statement. "Gov. Baker’s announcement reinforces the need for the FDA to clear the market of all flavored e-cigarettes in order to address the youth e-cigarette epidemic."

To me - this should have been done way before these things began to sell. That is where the big mistake is -- who is responsible for allowing these sales in the first place without having good research into the risks. Seems we still don't know for sure.

0 Replies

https://www.profnews.nl/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/american-airlines-annuleert-vluchten-met-boeing-737-max-tot-september.jpg

The government grounded every single Boeing 737 Max after a couple accidents (most people who have flown on a Boeing 737 Max were never injured). Many people thought that the government acted too slowly. They basically banned a passengers ability to fly on these planes.

How is banning vaping any different?

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

[quote="maxdancona]
How is banning vaping any different?
[/quote]
It is profoundly different. The airspace above the United States, is in law, public property, controlled by the government. For basic reasons of air safety the government directly controls access to and routing in all the airspace in the continental U.S. above 10,000 ft. altitude and a good deal of it down to the surface as well (mostly that around airports). In addition, the government establishes & enforces minimum standards and licensing protocols for pilots, both commercial and private - for the same reasons. Finally the government tests and certifies all aircraft used for commercial purposes to ensure the public safety. All this has been established in law for over eight decades. No one has the right under our law to use an aircraft model for commercial purposes that has not previously been certified by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).

Interestingly the issues with the 737 Max mostly involve software (and its interfaces with external instruments) used to support automatic flight control responses. This is not an entirely new issue in that military aircraft have had some such features (including automatic carrier landing systems for Navy aircraft) for a long time. (My experience in that area ended a couple of decades ago, but very few of the Pilots then would trust it in a landing in rough seas, or use it in calm ones at the cost of maintaining their own skills. All of this is likely a foretaste of what's ahead for automatic control of motor vehicles.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

The point I am trying to make is that Americans give special dispensation for smoking products that we dont give to any other product... such as herbal diet suplements or lawn darts.

The airplame wasnt the besr choice of example.

1 Reply

Forums
» Vaping - does it make sense just to outlaw it?

Read Question
Reply to All

Vaping - does it make sense just to outlaw it?

Quick Links

My Account

able2know