10
   

Should I cross the picket line?

 
 
George
 
  4  
Fri 19 Apr, 2019 08:46 am
I wouldn't cross the line, but I'm biased.
My son Rhys is one of the picketers.
tsarstepan
 
  -2  
Fri 19 Apr, 2019 12:07 pm
@George,
But does your son picket his nose? Just curious. Not relevant to this thread.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  3  
Fri 19 Apr, 2019 12:09 pm
@Linkat,
No. You shouldn’t
0 Replies
 
Below viewing threshold (view)
engineer
 
  2  
Mon 22 Apr, 2019 05:44 am
Apparently the strike is over and you can shop in peace with happy employees.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/stop-shop-strike-ends_n_5cbd28a6e4b032e7ceb9dea7

Quote:
The largest private-sector strike by U.S. workers in three years came to an apparent end Sunday, with the grocery chain Stop & Shop announcing it had reached a tentative agreement with the United Food and Commercial Workers union.

The union said in a statement that the new contract includes pay increases and “preserves health care and retirement benefits” for members. Neither the chain nor the union released full details on the agreement.
...
Stop & Shop said in a statement Sunday that all its employees would be back on the job Monday morning.
Linkat
 
  2  
Mon 22 Apr, 2019 06:57 am
@engineer,
I ended up not crossing. I was able to get what I needed with a combination of BJs and Trader Joes (which I prefer to go to). If I had felt I needed to cross I was going to go to the S&S near BJs as it is not my regular store.

Although I may not 100% agree with the picket - to cross at my local store where I have interacted with some of the employees over the years just didn't sit well with me.I certainly do not be-grudge their picket and am happy they were able to resolve this and get back to work (for them as well as myself)
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  5  
Mon 22 Apr, 2019 07:03 am
@livinglava,
Thank you for your 101 Economics seminar. However, it really is not necessary - I do not think you fully read (or perhaps misunderstood what was I referring to in my reference to sharing costs).

Seeing I have successfully obtained a Masters Degree in Economics over 20 years ago your simplistic explanation of supply and demand is unneeded.

I also would hold these employees with a bit more respect (even disagreeing their picketing) to preach at them about the basics of economics.
livinglava
 
  0  
Mon 22 Apr, 2019 04:01 pm
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:

Thank you for your 101 Economics seminar. However, it really is not necessary - I do not think you fully read (or perhaps misunderstood what was I referring to in my reference to sharing costs).

Seeing I have successfully obtained a Masters Degree in Economics over 20 years ago your simplistic explanation of supply and demand is unneeded.

I also would hold these employees with a bit more respect (even disagreeing their picketing) to preach at them about the basics of economics.

Sorry if it sounded condescending. I just can't understand why people would push customers to shop at more expensive stores, which lead inflation and thus undermine the ability to save money with lower income.

What I do understand is why you would boycott more expensive stores until they bring their prices in line with more affordable competitors.

Linkat
 
  2  
Tue 23 Apr, 2019 05:40 am
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:

Sorry if it sounded condescending. I just can't understand why people would push customers to shop at more expensive stores, which lead inflation and thus undermine the ability to save money with lower income.

What I do understand is why you would boycott more expensive stores until they bring their prices in line with more affordable competitors.


Simple to get what they want - they want more benefits and pay; the company was looking at their bottom line to please shareholders - the two fell short of each other; so the union decided to have the employees picket to try to get as much as they could.

Each party is simply looking out for what they think is best for them. They are not concerned about the overall economy and the impact that potential rising prices (if this all results in increased costs to the company) will have - and I doubt any are even looking at the longer term potential impacts this could have on them personally. - Maybe the corporation overall as I imagine they do a long term analysis as well as short term.

However, as an individual worker most are short sighted and tend to look at the immediate impact on them and their lives - in their defense some can only look at the short term as they are living pay check to pay check. What they see is my health care premiums are going to go up; my pay is not going up as high and my husband whose company also provides health care will have to get it through his company now and their benefits are not as good. I am going to have less $$ now. I know this is what I went through - over the last 5 years or so once Obamacare came into place each year my net pay (besides last year) went down due to the rising cost of health care - this is similar to many employees. The company took some of the costs, the employees took some of the rising costs.

Few of these workers consider or perhaps may not understand that if after the result of all this - is prices could go up in their store and then less people shop there because two miles down the street piggly wiggly is on average 5% cheaper than their store resulting in the need for less employees or any other cost saving things the company will do resulting in less employees, move to more part time vs full time or some combination.

Like these employees I will do what is best for me and my family. As much as I "like" this particular store, if I find as a result it is going to save me more money, I will go to Shaws on the other side of town for example. They also have rewards programs that I can easily sign up for. Not sure the impact yet, it may be minimal, it may be larger than that.

Even though most people respected the picket, from what I read this picket has not been overall popular in the opinions of the consumers. Only time will tell for sure.
engineer
 
  5  
Tue 23 Apr, 2019 05:50 am
@Linkat,
A lot of people misunderstand the cost of labor on the products you buy. For most stores, it is very small. I computed the cost impact at Wal Mart (using their annual report and making some assumptions about how much of their labor was hourly) if they raised the salary from $10/hr to $15/hr and it was between 1% and 2%. It is probably similar at a grocery store although the turns at a grocery store are higher. I found a pizza store cost model on a thread a couple of years ago where I could change the labor cost and watch the impact on the cost of a pizza. The same change from $10 to $15 changed the pizza cost by eleven cents (again, 2%).

If I use the high end estimate, a $100 grocery bill becomes $102. I don't think anyone will drive across town for $2, that wouldn't even cover the gas. That income will dramatically help those at the low end of the scale pay the bills, stay in their homes, maybe even stimulate the economy by buying a little more. I think this is a win, glad to hear the workers and the store came to an agreement.
Linkat
 
  2  
Tue 23 Apr, 2019 09:59 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

A lot of people misunderstand the cost of labor on the products you buy. For most stores, it is very small. I computed the cost impact at Wal Mart (using their annual report and making some assumptions about how much of their labor was hourly) if they raised the salary from $10/hr to $15/hr and it was between 1% and 2%. It is probably similar at a grocery store although the turns at a grocery store are higher. I found a pizza store cost model on a thread a couple of years ago where I could change the labor cost and watch the impact on the cost of a pizza. The same change from $10 to $15 changed the pizza cost by eleven cents (again, 2%).

If I use the high end estimate, a $100 grocery bill becomes $102. I don't think anyone will drive across town for $2, that wouldn't even cover the gas. That income will dramatically help those at the low end of the scale pay the bills, stay in their homes, maybe even stimulate the economy by buying a little more. I think this is a win, glad to hear the workers and the store came to an agreement.


Your estimate is flawed - it only looks at salary - it does not consider benefits.

Why I noted IF - costs may or may not go up as a result - they may go up a considerable amount, they may not - I do not have their FS to determine this nor do I know the details of what ultimately happened to their negotiations.

It is not just salary that could go up, pensions (which can be a huge expense to companies) as well as health care coverage - that could be a huge increase depending on what they compromised on - I would drive across town if I saw a big increase, I may not if it isn't so much. But you are talking about a mile or 2 - you are not talking about a big inconvenience in most areas.

Another reason I noted that an option for the company is hire more part time vs full time workers as if a big part of the changes were to things like pensions and health care - part time workers do not get these and companies can cut costs by having fewer employees that get these benefits.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  -2  
Tue 23 Apr, 2019 01:21 pm
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:

Simple to get what they want - they want more benefits and pay; the company was looking at their bottom line to please shareholders - the two fell short of each other; so the union decided to have the employees picket to try to get as much as they could.

Each party is simply looking out for what they think is best for them. They are not concerned about the overall economy and the impact that potential rising prices (if this all results in increased costs to the company) will have - and I doubt any are even looking at the longer term potential impacts this could have on them personally. - Maybe the corporation overall as I imagine they do a long term analysis as well as short term.

It's a mistake not to look at the bigger picture. If this supermarket is a low-price leader, is it going to raise its prices if the union/workers get their way? Probably so, because that is what attracts investors to buy the shares.

So if they get their wages/benefits increased, then the prices will go up, and if other businesses/unions respond to the price increases by raising their prices/incomes/etc. you end up with inflation at the general level.

You can think of inflation as a less-immediate concern than getting a raise, but if you realize your raise won't ultimately be worth anything after prices go up, then you should consider that RESISTING INFLATION is a better bet, because that at least gives you the opportunity to save money for the future and have it be worth more.

Quote:
However, as an individual worker most are short sighted and tend to look at the immediate impact on them and their lives - in their defense some can only look at the short term as they are living pay check to pay check. What they see is my health care premiums are going to go up; my pay is not going up as high and my husband whose company also provides health care will have to get it through his company now and their benefits are not as good. I am going to have less $$ now. I know this is what I went through - over the last 5 years or so once Obamacare came into place each year my net pay (besides last year) went down due to the rising cost of health care - this is similar to many employees. The company took some of the costs, the employees took some of the rising costs.

Everyone plays their part in raising costs and prices, including unions and management and investors, landlords, health-care providers, etc.

Ultimately it all amounts to taxing saved by money by chipping away at the future value of money.

Quote:
Few of these workers consider or perhaps may not understand that if after the result of all this - is prices could go up in their store and then less people shop there because two miles down the street piggly wiggly is on average 5% cheaper than their store resulting in the need for less employees or any other cost saving things the company will do resulting in less employees, move to more part time vs full time or some combination.

Like these employees I will do what is best for me and my family. As much as I "like" this particular store, if I find as a result it is going to save me more money, I will go to Shaws on the other side of town for example. They also have rewards programs that I can easily sign up for. Not sure the impact yet, it may be minimal, it may be larger than that.

Even though most people respected the picket, from what I read this picket has not been overall popular in the opinions of the consumers. Only time will tell for sure.

If unions are going to picket, they should picket expensive stores, not low price leaders.

0 Replies
 
George
 
  3  
Tue 23 Apr, 2019 01:42 pm
The union is claiming victory, but it's not much. They only managed to
preserve, not increase, medical and pension benefits and the pay increase is
about the same or less than the rate of inflation. And this is only for
current workers. The agreement is two-tiered. New employees will get less.

From where I sit, it looks like Stop & Shop came out just fine.
livinglava
 
  -1  
Tue 23 Apr, 2019 03:09 pm
@George,
George wrote:

The union is claiming victory, but it's not much. They only managed to
preserve, not increase, medical and pension benefits and the pay increase is
about the same or less than the rate of inflation. And this is only for
current workers. The agreement is two-tiered. New employees will get less.

From where I sit, it looks like Stop & Shop came out just fine.

If you really want a better deal for workers, as well as low prices, the best thing to do is have a worker/customer-owned co-op. The problem with that is that workers have to avoid getting upset working within the margins of whatever revenues they can bring in at the price levels they choose for their products and services.
George
 
  4  
Tue 23 Apr, 2019 04:00 pm
@livinglava,
And why must they avoid getting upset?
livinglava
 
  -2  
Tue 23 Apr, 2019 04:36 pm
@George,
George wrote:

And why must they avoid getting upset?

Because they are the managers and the shareholders, as well as the workers.

In other words, they can't picket against themselves the way they can against a company whose managers and shareholders they consider alien to their own interests.
George
 
  6  
Wed 24 Apr, 2019 04:38 am
@livinglava,
They can get as upset as they want. All normal people get upset.
livinglava
 
  1  
Wed 24 Apr, 2019 05:36 am
@George,
George wrote:

They can get as upset as they want. All normal people get upset.

So what? What does that have to do with economic politics?
George
 
  4  
Wed 24 Apr, 2019 06:29 am
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:
George wrote:
They can get as upset as they want. All normal people get upset.
So what? What does that have to do with economic politics?
Nothing. Why did you bring it up?
tsarstepan
 
  3  
Wed 24 Apr, 2019 07:23 am
@George,
As to Livinglava's repeated criticism? Stop and Shop likes to consider itself a leader in low prices and on many accounts... in relative terms it is. But in Massachusetts, there are many cheaper alternatives.

Makes me think he's never been to Massachusetts or Stop and Shop. When I lived in Massachusetts? Stop and Shop was my favorite grocery store (in terms of location, accessibility, cleanliness, variety of stuff to buy, and relative inexpensiveness, etc...). Not shopping there doesn't mean you're forced to shop at more expensive grocery stores. That oft-repeated point is moot.
 

 
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