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Could someone explain to me why this is a bad idea?

 
 
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 08:07 am
I was wondering if it would be a good idea to buy a house, apartment, whatever, without getting a mortgage. I mean, just throw all your money into it and pay for the whole shebang outright.

How would that be bad? If it was possible (which, in my case, it isn't, yet), wouldn't that be just like putting your money into a great low-risk, high-return investment, AND eliminating that pesky mortgage payment?

What are the pros and cons of this idea?

thanks
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 3,237 • Replies: 33
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sozobe
 
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Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 08:10 am
If you had the money I think it would be a great idea.

I think the only reason people don't do it is because they don't have the money.

Can't think of any drawbacks right now, maybe someone will come up with one.

Something about taxes, maybe?
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 08:16 am
It is a good idea kicky, and yes, you do get tax write-offs
when you have a mortgage but usually they don't offset
the entire amount.

If you have the money - do it! Should you later on have
a financial emergency, you always can take out a home
equity loan (up to a $ 100,000) and the interest rate on
home equity loans is usually considerably lower than regular
mortgage loans.

Real estate never has been a bad investment - on the contrary.
0 Replies
 
Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 08:47 am
One of my sisters and her late husband, who was an economist, and her current husband who is a banker has been doing this for 20 years and has been trading up consistently from house to house. If you can find the right houses the initial payment is a very good investment.
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husker
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 08:48 am
It helps to buy right if you can.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 08:54 am
Now might not be the best time to do this -- the prices of houses are very, very high, and there is some indication that it might be a bubble set to pop. If you buy a house the standard way -- mortgage, interest rates -- it usually evens out, because part of the reason house prices are so high is that interest rates are so low. People only really care about their monthly payments.

If interest rates are out of the equation, you're paying more than the house is "worth." (Quotes 'cause that's so imprecise. The "worth" of the house has a lot to do with what comparable houses are selling for. We have a really weird house that doesn't compare very well to existing houses. The appraiser decided it was worth what we paid for it. I asked how that was determined, and it was basically because we were willing to pay that much for it and the appraiser didn't notice anything that would greatly increase or decrease the value. So it's a bit circular -- it's worth what you're willing to pay.)

OK all of that is conjecture and not my area of expertise, but that's the impressions I got after my big house-hunting and -buying experience last year.
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 09:03 am
It's a great idea if you have the $! I bought my house out right and the freedom of not having a mortage is awesome! Plus you'll save a bundle in interest.

Go for it ;-)
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 09:12 am
I stole my house..scouted a few out of town areas...found the house I liked, then when the owners went on vacation inflated the tires and drove it to my lot. Scraped of the serial numbers and painted it.

There's always a solution if you're willing to think outside the box.
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 09:28 am
And you can do that too Laughing
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kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 09:49 am
So what you are all saying is that my little scheming brain has finally come up with a decent idea that might just work? Holy ****!
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 09:51 am
I mean, if you have that much money, I dunno if this is the best possible investment. Especially now, with lots of speculation that the housing market's in danger of crashing.

But yeah, lots of benefits.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 09:51 am
I know. I'm pretty amazed!
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 09:52 am
sozobe wrote:
Now might not be the best time to do this -- the prices of houses are very, very high, and there is some indication that it might be a bubble set to pop. If you buy a house the standard way -- mortgage, interest rates -- it usually evens out, because part of the reason house prices are so high is that interest rates are so low. People only really care about their monthly payments.

If interest rates are out of the equation, you're paying more than the house is "worth." (Quotes 'cause that's so imprecise. The "worth" of the house has a lot to do with what comparable houses are selling for. We have a really weird house that doesn't compare very well to existing houses. The appraiser decided it was worth what we paid for it. I asked how that was determined, and it was basically because we were willing to pay that much for it and the appraiser didn't notice anything that would greatly increase or decrease the value. So it's a bit circular -- it's worth what you're willing to pay.)

OK all of that is conjecture and not my area of expertise, but that's the impressions I got after my big house-hunting and -buying experience last year.


I will try to decipher your second paragraph when I get a moment's peace here at work, but right now I'm too frazzled.

But I'm interested in this "bubble" idea. For the past seven years, all the time that I've lived in New York, people have been saying, "you should wait another year or two, because the bottom is going to drop out of the market anyday now." Yeah, right. Prices have never gone down except for about six months after the WTC disaster, and that was only downtown in that one little area.

So I'm not sure whether that is just a NYC thing, or if it's just a "the sky is falling" kind of thing that people say because they are just naturally nervous.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 09:57 am
My second paragraph is confusing. Mostly because I don't know what I'm talking about, just a vague idea.

Housing market crashes are real, they've happened before, happening now in the Bay Area:

http://patrick.net/housing/crash.html

Lots of good info there.

I'll see if I can flesh out what I'm saying better, hold on a sec...
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 09:59 am
Thanks, Soz, and take your time. I don't think I'll be able to respond again for a while...damn work.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 10:00 am
This is good, too:

Quote:
Campbell says investment fundamentals always apply -- diversify your portfolio. Just as your portfolio shouldn't have been top heavy with dot com stocks in the 1990s, it shouldn't be housing heavy now. And when it comes to real estate you'd better be in it for the long haul. The down periods can last just as long as the up sessions.

Investors and prospective investors, especially rookies, should pay close attention to a primary set of indicators that can give some early warning signs of a pending downturn.

"Every month, follow a publication or publications to get the five key indicators. Start logging them. Use a spreadsheet to chart them. One or two months doesn't make a trend. Trends develop over the long term. Create a graph and start seeing them go up and down. This is not what I think. This is what the market tells me," Campbell says.

Campbell says the key indicators to watch are:

Interest Rates. Rising interest rates have a depressing effect on real estate prices. Falling rates help generate demand. That boosts prices.
Building Permits. When demand is strong, builders pull more building permits so they can build and sell homes. Unwilling to be stuck with homes they can't sell in a softer market, builders reduce the number of permits when demand drops.
Home Sales. Simple principles of supply and demand affect home sales. When buyers buy, prices rise. When buyers retreat so do prices.
Loan Defaults. Defaulting home owners are having job or money troubles or both. That signals a weakening economy.
Foreclosure Sales. Foreclosures signal even deeper consumer money troubles and a worsening economy. It also signals dropping home prices.
Income levels are also key. If they don't keep pace with the cost of housing, buying a home to live in, let alone second homes, becomes more and more difficult.

"The biggest determinant, if you go back 60 years is that ultimately housing tracks with income. What doesn't track with income?" he asked.


http://realtytimes.com/rtcpages/20050315_speculation.htm
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 10:08 am
Ok so here is what I was getting at (disclaimers still apply, just trying to make my half-baked idea clearer):

Say two people buy houses for $500,000 each in a very hot market with low interest rates. Person A buys it the usual way, smallish down payment (say $50,000) and then monthly mortgage payments. Person B buys it outright, $500,000 down.

In 2 years, both A and B need to move. The housing market has crashed. The $500,000 houses are now selling for $250,000. Person B takes a $250,000 loss. Person A has not put that much money into his house yet -- he just takes the equity that was already in his house, and uses it as a down payment on a new $250,000 house.

That's where I get especially fuzzy. I know a fair amount about buying a first house but far less about selling it and buying another.

The thing with housing prices is that people only really care about their monthly payments. If interest rates are low, they can make low monthly payments on a very expensive house. If interest rates are high, house prices go down -- same monthly payment.

It seems to make the most sense to buy outright when interest rates are high or the market is otherwise weaker.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 10:25 am
Soz is right. I wouldn't buy a house when the market is at it's peak. The market has been smokin for quite a few years now and I'm surprised it hasn't crashed yet.
I've seen it happen and it is devistating for those who bought homes when the market was at it's best. Now is a great time to sell, but I wouldn't suggest buying anything until the market settles down.
Buying a home is most likely the biggest investment you'll ever make and you don't want to take the kind off loss you'll have if the market crashes.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 11:00 am
Paying cash for a house in Italy sounds like a good idea. Especially if it's on the beach. :wink:

In general, I agree that it's a good idea with the caveat of soz's advice about the current market. But keep in mind that not all housing markets are in a bubble, so a lot depends on where you are buying. If you are buying somewhere that you want to live for the next say 10 years, it's an excellent idea because any dip in values is likely to balance back out by the time you sell. And any money you make on the sale of a house you've lived in for two years or more is tax-free. Up to $250,000 that is.
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 03:26 pm
So, it seems that what I'm hearing here is that this is a good idea if I find someplace where the real estate market is looking good.

Anyone know of any cities, towns, etc., where things are booming, or at least looking fairly good?

I know that Las Vegas has been the hot spot for a while, but other than that, I don't know any others.
0 Replies
 
 

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