1
   

10,000 Dow this year...or 5000?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2003 09:46 am
Tartar, I don't predicate our economy on our political leadership. I look at the overall economy of the US and the developed countries based upon employment rates, inflation rate, consumer and government debts, stability of financial institutions, p/e ratios, tax policies, cash flows, macro/micro economics, currency exchange rates, wars and threats of war, and gut feeling. c.i.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jun, 2003 09:56 am
Ditto -- but there's a big difference for me between "our economy" and "the market." The market does reflect the bumps in the road, which it didn't as much before its clientele widened so dramatically. Turning the market around in the old days was like trying to turn the Queen Mary without a tugboat. Now we have a market which is as agile (and "superficial") as a cigarette boat!
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Jun, 2003 06:54 pm
Any one been paying attention to this?

Quote:
Here's some cold water for a red-hot stock market: Executives are rushing to sell their companies' shares at a pace not seen since 2001.

More than $3.1 billion in shares was sold in May by corporate insiders, the most such selling in 24 months. By comparison, monthly stock sales by insiders failed to exceed $1.4 billion during each of the previous five months, and just $630 million of sales took place in January, according to research firm Thomson Financial.

The moves are a concern because insider buying and selling -- by people who presumably are the most knowledgeable about their companies' prospects -- have been good predictors of the market's direction. For example, many executives sold their holdings in early 2000, just before a bear market in stocks began. Now, many again are locking in profits -- especially in health care, technology and finance stocks -- on the heels of the market's recent gains.

Insiders' big stock sales may be omen
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Jun, 2003 07:09 pm
PDid, The smart money is taking what they can when the market is high. Remember that premise; buy low, sell high. That's what is happening. The unemployment rate is at its highest in many years, and that doesn't bode well for our eocnomy - nor the world's. Things are not looking too hot for any improvement in the next several years. All those pundits telling us to unload bonds are all crazy. Where do they think this market is headed? Bonds may pay only 3 percent, but that's much better than losing 50 to 80 percent of your holdings on a gamble that it's going up. Besides, I like to sleep at nights. c.i.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jun, 2003 07:08 pm
I still hold by my original guestimate of 7,500 to 8,500 on the DOW for year end. There's nothing in the fundamentals of our economy to justify the current levels. c.i.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 06:24 am
I heard that yesterday, PDiddie, and it gave me a chill. I'll go looking for two other things which gave me a chill in the Sunday NYTimes...
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jun, 2003 06:36 am
Quote:
MARKET WATCH
Shareholders Will Pick Up the Bill This Time, Too
by GRETCHEN MORGENSON


SHAREHOLDERS who had been both bloodied and bowed by revelations of improper accounting at Xerox during the late 1990's took another hit on Thursday. That's when the company said its shareholders would pay most of the $22 million in penalties levied by the Securities and Exchange Commission against six former executives in settling the case.
Only $3 million of the penalties, classified by regulators as a fine, would be paid by the executives named in the case. Xerox also disclosed that its long-suffering shareholders would pay the legal fees of the individuals who had settled the case without admitting or denying guilt.
The $19 million and undisclosed legal fees may be chump change compared with the billions in losses that Xerox shareholders have incurred since reports appeared of accounting irregularities at the company. But requiring shareholders to pay regulators' penalties certainly adds insult to injury. It illuminates yet another failing in corporate governance, one that shareholders must pick up their pitchforks to correct.
Unfortunately, Xerox shareholders are not alone in being required to pay such a bill. Because of so-called indemnification provisions in most companies' bylaws, shareholders almost always end up paying the penalties to which company officials agree when they settle with regulators. But the provisions can also mean that shareholders cover these costs when companies choose to litigate such cases rather than settle without admitting or denying guilt...http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/08/business/yourmoney/08WATC.html


The other is a politically motivated ruling reversal at the IRS to benefit the Rummy-Cheney-Gingrich old boy network -- which I'll post in Bush-related discussion.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2003 03:48 pm
I keep kicking this thread up to the top about every two weeks so we can all keep abreast of our history, and our predictions.

So today the Fed lowered the Funds rate to 1.0%, a level not seen since 1958. (personal sidebar: that was a very good year...)

The markets responded by shedding some value, having already factored in the quarter-point cut.

So at closing:

DJIA 9011
Nasdaq 1602
S&P 975

Here's a great link, including this take from the fellas at BusinessWeek:

Quote:
The trouble for the Fed, though, is that when it cuts rates, the money doesn't necessarily flow to the parts of the economy where it can do the most good. Despite all the money that the central bank has pumped out, industrial companies remain gun-shy about taking on new debt to finance investment. Commercial and industrial loans at banks have actually shrunk over the past year, by $75 billion according to the Fed.

Even though lending rates are extraordinarily low, chief executives in the goods-producing sector are reluctant to borrow for fear that, with prices falling and demand lackluster, they will have a hard time repaying loans. In essence, manufacturers are mired in a localized deflation and low interest rates make very little difference to them. Adjusted for expected deflation in the price of goods they sell, real interest rates for those firms "have been going up," says Wachovia Corp. economist Mark Vitner.

Fed officials say that Corporate America is also holding back on borrowing and investment because company execs are still skittish in the wake of recent accounting scandals. Rather than focusing on ways to expand their businesses, corporate execs are focused on minimizing risk and keeping their jobs.


The Scary Side of Low Rates

All I could say after reading this was, "Whoa". How 'bout you?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2003 04:05 pm
PDid, Too many mixed signals to determine how to forecast the economy for us and the world. I'm not too optitimistic at this point even with the .25 basis points reduction in the interest rate and the tax cuts effective July 1. I'm looking for long-term stable growth, not spurts and hisses, and especially not what the financial pundits tell us. c.i.
0 Replies
 
New Haven
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jun, 2003 05:46 pm
Instead of concentrating on the DOW, the unemployment situation in the US needs to be addressed.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jun, 2003 06:08 pm
Boy, it's been a long time since you and I agreed on something, NH.

I agree with you regarding the post above.

This thread simply serves my interests in terms of "here's what the market is doing, what do you think".

Everybody's opinions are welcome, but particularly those who are investors (in or out of the stock market currently).

The only thing I have been tempted to buy is an automotive supplier whose stock price has gone from $1.00 a share down to .67 and up to 2.83 over the course of the past six weeks.

(I'm still just watching it.)
0 Replies
 
New Haven
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jun, 2003 06:09 pm
Sometime ago, I bought ExpressScripts. I'm holding my breath on this one.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jun, 2003 06:32 pm
IMHO, it's a gamble to buy one stock at a time; the likelyhood that it'll go up is as likely as it will go down. All of our equities are in mutual funds. It's managed by people that have watched the market for a very long time, and they seem to overload on the blue chips that has the best chance for recovery. I believe in diversification not only in the mix of investments, but a good mix of small caps, medium caps, and large caps. The only way I can do that is to be in mutual funds. When one goes up, the others may go down, so there's somewhat of a balance. Also, I think the Nasdaq is over-valued, and I don't see the major players showing that much of a profit in the next few years. It won't hold the current levels for very long. c.i.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2003 01:52 pm
Since the end of the year is approaching I figured it was time to kick this back up for those that gave predictions.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2003 01:59 pm
And only 11% got it right...so far...

I'm not sure if that's an indication of the general dislike of Bush and his economic policy that pervades A2K, or, if it is simply a lack of economic proclivity, myself included.

For the record, I hadn't paid attention to this thread before, and have not voted in the poll.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2003 04:04 pm
The increasing unemployment is a big concern. At the current level of the DOW, i still see "irrational exuberance" when viewed at p/e ratios. All the economic indicators looks better than it did in mid-summer, but I'm still skeptical about our longer-term economic outlook. A little terror here and there has scared the markets under control, but we're seeing new highs since 2002. I'll stick with my 8,500 for now.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2003 07:32 pm
I voted '8000' and am truly amazed that the market finds itself at today's closing:

DJIA: 9873 NASDAQ: 1960 S&P 1064

I'll go out on another skinny limb (having fallen and broken a leg already) and say that I think this market has all possible optimism already factored in; it ends the year closer to 9,500 than 10,000.

Kudos to those who were more accurate than me.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2003 07:36 pm
PDid, Don't give up the ship just yet! We gotta wait till December 31. One terrorist attack, and we might see below 8,000.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2003 08:11 pm
cicerone, I won't hope for anything like that. Of course there would be a huge sell-off should something drastic occur.

I thought it odd that traders suddenly sold out about 200 points on the Dow on 'threats of renewed terrorism' a few weeks ago (then bounced back later in the same week), and that it was mostly unmoved in recent days by the revising of third-quarter productivity data from 7 to 8 and then 9%.

It seems like a fine time to take one's profits (had one enjoyed the run-up over the last six months).
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2003 08:55 pm
PDid, When the market moves one way or the other on "threats," don't pay too much attention to them. They are meaningless like the other b.s. the financial pundits like to explain as the reason for the ups and downs of the market. What matters more are p/e ratios, the long-term trends, and the stability of economies around the globe. Got to admit, as of the first day of this month, we're doing fantastic compared to December of 2002. Wink
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Where is the US economy headed? - Discussion by au1929
Shopping Around For Loans - Question by Brandon9000
What is greed? - Discussion by Robert Gentel
bonds series h - Question by allen russell
Naked Short Selling - Question by optimus cubed
HOW TO GET WEALTHY - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 04/25/2024 at 10:25:28