3
   

How does anyone but Nancy Pelosi's crap.

 
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2018 10:39 am
@maxdancona,
Pelosi is almost certainly in. Maybe things will be ok.

We need to do much better in 2020, and that is my real fear.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  6  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2018 11:47 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

My angst is caused by the cult of gender politics that has taken over the left and the Democratic party. I think you understand this... Pelosi is just another chapter in this story. Any criticism of her or challenge to her is painted as misogyny (compared to equivalent criticisms of Paul Ryan which are fair game).

You think no one criticises Pelosi? Given that the entire Republican party built their 2018 message around resistance to Pelosi, that is an amazing statement. Regardless, Pelosi built her bid for continued leadership of the House on her ability to forge a unified caucus, incredible fundraising abilities, best in a generation political instincts, a campaign plan focusing on local issues that returned the Democrats to power in the House and a progressive record going back decades that appeals to a wave of new members elected on progressive energy. To say that the only way she could be selected Speaker is because she is a woman is to ignore all her accomplishments. I can see the argument that you want the party to move right and Pelosi is not going to do that, but to say that her only qualification for office is her gender is ridiculous.
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2018 05:14 pm
I have spoken out against Pelosi before, as I see her representing the party establishment, the old guard. But I am reminded of Churchill's comment on democracy: Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government, except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time. My attitude toward Pelosi is that she is the worst choice for Speaker, except for all the alternatives. The so-called five white guys who are orchestrating opposition to her represent the far right of the Democratic Party. In realpolitik, in practical politics, Pelosi is the best choice. None of this has anything to do with her gender.

Once again, Max dives into hysteria whenever the topic is a woman.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2018 06:05 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
but to say that her only qualification for office is her gender is ridiculous.


No one is saying this. (I don't know if this is intended as a straw man.) I am saying that it is gender politics that is driving the Pelosi campaign (this says nothing about Pelosi's accomplishments. If Pelosi were a man with her same accomplishments and her same liabilities, she wouldn't have a chance. She would just be another old rich politically connected politician.

This thread is about the gender politics behind the Pelosi campaign. Read Setanta's post; he demonstrates my point perfectly. Questioning the ideological narrative leads to attacks. This is why there is no one to be found to challenge Pelosi.
neptuneblue
 
  4  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2018 06:24 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
If Pelosi were a man with her same accomplishments and her same liabilities, she wouldn't have a chance.


What hogwash. You down play her accomplishments just BECAUSE she is a woman. Is this gender politics you speak of?



Name one other qualified candidate MALE or FEMALE that accomplished what she did:

Major Accomplishments of the 110th Congress

SPEAKER PELOSI AND HOUSE DEMOCRATS PASSED OVER 230 KEY MEASURES – MORE THAN 70% WITH SIGNIFICANT BIPARTISAN SUPPORT

The House had a quick, successful start (“Six for ’06” Agenda) and continued to build on that record of accomplishment throughout the Congress. Listed are selected highlights of the legislation signed into law:

INNOVATION AND JOBS

COMPREHENSIVE ENERGY LEGISLATION, which raised vehicle fuel efficiency standards (35 mpg by the year 2020) for the first time in 32 years, and making an historic commitment to American homegrown biofuels.

TAX INCENTIVES FOR CLEAN RENEWABLE ENERGY that helped create or save over 500,000 jobs.

COMPETES ACT promoted high‐tech jobs, expanded math and science education, and boosted research and innovation.

ECONOMIC RECOVERY AND STIMULUS PACKAGEwith Recovery Rebates for 130 million American middle class families to provide some help during difficult economic period.

EDUCATION

LARGEST EXPANSION OF COLLEGE AID IN SIX DECADES, cutting loan rates in half and increasing Pell Grants.

NEW GI BILLto provide free college education to veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan.

HEAD START REAUTHORIZATION, first reform and expansion in 10 years.

FAIRNESS

MINIMUM WAGE INCREASE,first in 10 years, a $4,400 raise for 13 million Americans.

ECONOMIC RESCUSE LEGISLATION to protect Main Street from the crisis on Wall Street.

ALTERNATIVE MINIMUM TAX REFORM protected 25 million middle‐class families from paying the AMT.

MENTAL HEALTH PARITY to end coverage discrimination against patients seeking treatment for mental illnesses.

LANDMARK LOBBY AND ETHICS REFORM, including creating of an outside, independent ethics panel.

NATIONAL SECURITY

ENACTED 9/11 COMMISSION RECOMMENDATIONS to strengthen homeland security.

LARGEST INVESTMENT IN VETERANS’ HEATH CAREin the 77‐year history of the VA.

HOUSE ACTIONS BLOCKED BY THE PRESIDENT

MANY MAJOR INITIATIVES PASSED BY THE HOUSE WERE BLOCKED BY PRESIDENT BUSH’S VETOES (11), VETO THREATS (64), OR AN HISTORIC LEVEL OF FILIBUSTERS BY SENATE REPUBLICANS

Among the bills passed by the House that were blocked by the President’s veto or obstruction by Republicans in the Senate were:

Responsible redeployment of U.S. troops from Iraq

Children’s health insurance for 10 million children

Fall Economic Recovery and Stimulus Effort to create jobs, build essential infrastructure, help states meet soaring health care costs, expand emergency food programs, and extend
Unemployment Insurance benefits

Expansion of life‐saving Stem Cell Research

Giving Medicare the authority to negotiate with drug companies for lower prices, saving seniors hundreds of dollars a year

Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act to ensure women are paid equal pay for equal work

Curbing excessive oil speculation

Employee Free Choice Act to restore workers’ rights by removing obstacles that prevent workersfrom choosing whether or not they want to form or join a union



maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2018 06:32 pm
@neptuneblue,
The question is whether your opinion of Pelosi's accomplishments and for her fitness to serve as speaker, would change if she were man..it is a fair question.

As far as her accomplishments, they are comparable to those of Paul Ryan. The difference being that Paul Ryan is stepping aside for the good of party and country.
neptuneblue
 
  3  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2018 06:41 pm
@maxdancona,
My opinion is that I choose the BEST person for the position. It's a shame you don't.

maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2018 07:24 pm
@neptuneblue,
Did you choose Hillary Clinton to get the presidential nomination? Because she sure failed and now we are paying the consequences.

I won't be happy if the Democrats pull the same stunt again in 2020. The gender politics running the Democratic party aren't good for the party or the country.
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2018 07:25 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
but to say that her only qualification for office is her gender is ridiculous.

No one is saying this.

It sure sounds like you are saying this. You've repeatedly said that if it weren't for her gender, she wouldn't be considered for the post.
maxdancona wrote:

I am saying that it is gender politics that is driving the Pelosi campaign (this says nothing about Pelosi's accomplishments. If Pelosi were a man with her same accomplishments and her same liabilities, she wouldn't have a chance.

She would be Tip O'Neill (I've seen stories by long time House watchers saying she is actually better), considered on par with the best the House has ever seen, elected by acclamation and when she chose to retire, she would be feted by the nation. Given her huge list of accomplishments both in and out of the majority, she will go down as a Lionesse of the House.
maxdancona wrote:

This thread is about the gender politics behind the Pelosi campaign.

Except you haven't shown that Pelosi is using gender politics. Where is she doing anything but pointing out her accomplishments and deriding her opponents as being far to her right?
maxdancona wrote:

Questioning the ideological narrative leads to attacks. This is why there is no one to be found to challenge Pelosi.

There is no one to be found to challenge Pelosi because no one has her qualifications. Those hell bent on replacing her are unable to deliver votes and are from the moderate wing of the party and that is the ideological position that is a failure right now.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2018 07:29 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

As far as her accomplishments, they are comparable to those of Paul Ryan. The difference being that Paul Ryan is stepping aside for the good of party and country.

I'm sorry, but Paul Ryan had no control over his caucus, had no influence with the White House, had no ideological consistency and will leave no lasting mark on the country. Paul Ryan is in no way comparable to Nancy Pelosi. And Paul Ryan isn't stepping aside for the good on the country, Paul Ryan had his butt handed to him by all sides for the last four years and is leaving for the good of Paul Ryan. I don't blame him, I wouldn't want to be a punching bag either, but there is nothing noble about Ryan's fleeing the House. That Pelosi is willing to take the abuse of Republicans and still fight for progressive values says a lot about the differences between them.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2018 07:39 pm
@engineer,
Nonsense. Tip O'Neil had consistently high approval ratings and was admired and respected by his adversaries. He had the ability to work with anyone... and was liked by all parts of the public.

Michelle Obama is like Tip O'Neil on her ability to reach out to many different constituencies and earn their respect. Pelosi continues to get very long approval ratings and is largely disliked outside of her ideological bubble.

Pelosi is a divisive figure. This has nothing to do with her gender.
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2018 08:24 pm
@maxdancona,
And yet when it comes to driving the caucus to consensus, holding them together and delivering the votes on key legislation, Pelosi delivers. Moderates and progressives, rural, suburban and urban, all parts of the country and Pelosi can hold them together and get the votes. That's what made O'Neill effective, not his popularity. Pelosi is "divisive" because the Republicans have made her a liberal boogie man, but as a politician delivering on her and her party's agenda, Pelosi is completely unmatched by any representative in either party. That is why she is running for speaker and why those few Democrats who would like to move the party away from her progressive agenda are finding little support. And that is completely independent of her gender.
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2018 08:37 pm
@engineer,
We disagree... mainly on your use of the term "liberal bogey man".

The left is becoming more and more extreme and out of touch with the American public. We have discussed this before, but I am not sure if you a this, or if you don't think itbis important.

The fact the right (particularly Trump) is also becoming ridiculously extreme is irrelevant... politics isn't symmetrical and if both sides go extreme it favors the right (the side with the simpler arguments to make).

I won't disagree with your list of Pelosi's strengths. But I also won't ignore her obvious weaknesses.

Pelosi is a big liability when it comes to reaching middle American voters. She makes Trump's reelection in 2020 more likely. And, in my opinion, she is making the political divisions in the country worse.
0 Replies
 
neptuneblue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2018 10:56 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Did you choose Hillary Clinton to get the presidential nomination? Because she sure failed and now we are paying the consequences.

I won't be happy if the Democrats pull the same stunt again in 2020. The gender politics running the Democratic party aren't good for the party or the country.


It doesn't matter if I tell you who I voted for. The end result is the same. Donald J. Trump was elected President in the November 2016 U.S. elections.

Mrs. Clinton lost a Presidential election bid. It's not the end of the world. Are we paying for the consequences? Sure, but not any more or any less than any other point in history.

To say you aren't happy is the sentiment of a lot of the U.S. population. However, there are many more who voted to ensure THEY would be happy. Isn't that the whole point of WHY we have these elections?

You have no say so in the 12th Congressional District of California on who they voted to represent them. And in all honesty, you have absolutely no say so on who gets elected Speaker of Majority of the House. So I have no idea why spewing your rhetoric on an anonymous forum makes you feel better.

If it really matters that much to you, write, call, email and show up to your local representative to make your voice heard. Volunteer at your local political office of your choice to ensure your participation is noted. Lead by example not complain that things didn't go your way.

Quit bitching, start doing.

maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sat 24 Nov, 2018 08:48 am
@neptuneblue,
Quote:
Quit bitching, start doing


Lol
0 Replies
 
Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Nov, 2018 08:59 am
@tsarstepan,
Quote:
Can someone translate the title for me. Thanks in advance.
*buy...
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sat 24 Nov, 2018 09:19 am
@Region Philbis,
I was going to guess it was "bug", but you are correct ... "buy" fits better.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  2  
Reply Sun 25 Nov, 2018 02:39 am
Impeaching Trump not on House Democrats' to-do list for now.


Published November 24, 2018
Quote:
WASHINGTON — Whatever happened to trying to impeach President Donald Trump?

As House Democrats begin laying out the vision for their new majority, that item is noticeably missing from the to-do list and firmly on the margins.

The agenda for now includes spending on public works projects, lowering health care costs and increasing oversight of the administration.

It's the balance that Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi is trying to strike in the new Congress between those on her party's left flank who are eager to confront the president, and her instinct to prioritize the kitchen-table promises that Democrats made to voters who elected them to office.

"We shouldn't impeach the president for political reasons and we shouldn't not impeach the president for political reasons," Pelosi recently told The Associated Press.

The California lawmaker, who hopes to lead Democrats as House speaker come January, calls impeachment a "divisive activity" that needs to be approached with bipartisanship. "If the case is there, then that should be self-evident to Democrats and Republicans," she said.

Those pressing for impeachment acknowledge they don't expect action on Day One of the new majority, but they do want to see Democrats start laying the groundwork for proceedings.

"We're for impeachment. We're not for get-sworn-in-on-Jan.-1-and-start-taking-votes," said Kevin Mack, the lead strategist for billionaire Tom Steyer's Need to Impeach campaign. "Our argument is the Constitution outlines a process to remove a lawless president."

In a new ad, Steyer says Democrats "just need the will" to act. He says he's calling on Americans to join the 6 million who have already signed on to his group to "give Congress the courage to act."

"The American people are tired of being told to wait," Mack said. "Our argument to Congress is you are a co-equal branch of government. It's time to do what is morally correct."

Twice over the past two years since Trump was elected, Democrats have tried to force votes on impeachment proceedings, winning a high-water mark of more than 60 supporters, far from the 218 needed.

Republicans are counting on, and possibly even hoping for, impeachment fervor to overtake Democrats, leading them astray from campaign promises or dealmaking with Trump.

"We know the Democrats have a plan: They want to disrupt, they want to try to impeach," said Republican Rep. Kevin McCarthy of California after winning the GOP's internal election to serve as minority leader in the new Congress.

Pelosi has made it clear the new majority will not engage in what she calls a "scattershot" approach to investigating the administration.

Instead, the incoming Democratic leaders of House committees will conduct oversight of the president's business and White House dealings. Democrats are also trying to ensure special counsel Robert Mueller completes his investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 election. They may try to add legislation to protect that probe to the must-pass spending bill in December to help fund the government. They want Mueller's findings made public.

"You have to be very reluctant to do an impeachment," Rep. Jerry Nadler, D-N.Y., the incoming chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, said recently on ABC. Nadler, who served on the committee during President Bill Clinton's impeachment, cited "the trauma of an impeachment process."

Democratic leaders also know that moving quickly on impeachment would not sit well with their newly elected members, who helped the party win a House majority in the recent midterms. Many come from swing districts where impeachment could prove unpopular.

"I didn't work 18 months listening to people in my district to get involved in a political back and forth for the next 18 months," said Rep.-elect Elissa Slotkin of Michigan. "People want to talk about health care. It's not a coincidence that most of us who won in tough districts, we won because we talked about issues, not because we talked about internal Washington stuff."

For now, outside liberal groups are largely standing by Pelosi's approach, putting their emphasis on pushing Democrats to chart a bold agenda on the domestic pocketbook concerns that won over voters.

Pelosi has some experience with impeachment, serving as a newer lawmaker when Republicans led impeachment proceedings against Clinton. When she became House speaker in 2007 she resisted pressure from her liberal flank to launch impeachment proceedings against President George W. Bush over the Iraq War.

Pelosi believes that if Democrats had tried to impeach Bush when she was speaker, voters may never have elected Barack Obama as president in 2008.

Politically, Democrats may be right. In 1974, Americans only came to agree that President Richard Nixon should be removed from office on the eve of his resignation, according to Pew research. Voters responded to Clinton's impeachment by electing more Democrats to the House.

"If we had gone down that path, I doubt we would have won the White House," she said. "People have to see we're working there for them."

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/impeaching-trump-not-on-house-democrats-to-do-list-for-now/ar-BBQ2m4m?ocid=UE13DHP
0 Replies
 
 

 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 04/28/2024 at 06:58:04