Ironic Web site!

Doh, I was gonna post that to the TFH thread! I even told jespah! You.. you .. you...!

That is SO GREAT!!

I was just thinking about this one. There was an article in the NYT about "Barbershop", and letting white folks listen in on black culture. People really say that stuff to each other, BUT...

I was thinking about how I change my conversational style according to who I'm with. I had this deaf friend with a totally Jewish name, looked totally Jewish, had Jewish mannerisms, etc. He was born deaf, parents were hearing. They never learned ASL, and he basically had no relationship with them.

So, we were hanging out, and he said, "geez, you complain a lot, don't you?" I was like, huh? He then pointed out a bunch of things I was "complaining" about. Thing was, I was kvetching -- like, humorously (hopefully) commenting on various irritations. Think Seinfeld. That's what I DO when I'm with Jewish friends. (Well, among other things. ) I check myself when I'm with non-Jewish friends, but this guy was a conundrum since he SEEMED so Jewish but actually was not part of the Jewish culture, since he had so little social/ cultural interaction with his family.

Make any sense?

Oy, some. ;-D

But I do know what you mean - I think there's a difference in the way we all react and behave, depending on how many connections we have. How does a group of women interact? A group of men? A group of teens? A group of people of the same faith? Race? National origin? Sexual orientation?

When I was dating, I used to say, it doesn't matter to me if my husband is Jewish. And it didn't - but then I met my husband and he is Jewish and, frankly, I now have a lot of trouble seeing myself as being this emotionally intimate with someone who I didn't share this background with. Keep in mind, we really don't practice. I guess, for us, it's more of a cultural thing, but the bottom line is that the connection has become really important, even though it's not necessarily the first thing we think of when we describe ourselves.

Hmmm.

Boy, I sure know this one! My cultural heritage is Mennonite, but I've had to stop confiding that to acquaintances. When they come to visit, I know they park their SUV around the corner, then have the guy from rent-a-buggy meet them. Or they'll bring over a cake which 'the kids made in the butter churn'.

Right, Jes, there's definitely all kinds of permutations of in-the-culture/ out-of-the-culture. I also relate differently to the guys I played pick-up b-ball with than my all-female book club, etc., etc.

(blatham, you are SUCH a dork. Glad you're here. )

sozobe

True, though an old fashioned and non-electrified one, which ought to count for something.

Hilarious site, cavfancier.

Jespah & Sozobe -- I have some thoughts on what you've said, but let me mull 'em over before I reply.

My company has occassional recourse to a metal-fabricating company in a small town nearby. The company is owned by an Amish family, and it is also an authorized dealer of Deutze farm equipment. Every man who works there wears the same blue chambray shirt and blue levis to work, and the office ladies all wear full-skirted dresses and dainty little lace mob caps. But that's about the only clue to the stereotype-challenged that they are dealing with the Amish. They sell farm equipment, for crissake. They drive cars (the older men still walk to work across the fields, wear a beard with no moustache, etc.--but they obviously dont disapprove of the guy who shows up in a 10-year old Chevy conversion van). The founder's son, Tim, now runs the business full-time--if you saw him on the street, you'd wanna know where he parked the buggy. And he has filled the shop with very expensive, high-tech, computer-controlled sheet steel rollers and punchers, and they do a land office business in everything the famer and livestock producer need, as well as in the sale of farm implements.

It was Blatham's wry humor that made me think of this (Blatham, that's "humour" in Canajun). I had a friend who insisted these people couldn't really be Amish, not if they drove vans and cars, sold farm equpment and ran machine tools and presses. I asked him how the hell he thought they were gonna make reliable free-standing cattle stalls in an age that hasn't seen such a one built of oaken 6 by 6's in a hundred years? He just continued to insist that "they're not really Amish."

They attend the same church their ancestors in Plain City have attended for more than 100 years. They still dress as did their ancestors, and have the same "family values." In fact, we patronize them, as do so many others, because those values lead them to seek a modest profit, and not to gouge the customer, which they likely feel would endanger their immortal souls. They are not stupid by any means, and i wouldn't advise anyone to try to pull a fast one on Tim Gingerich and company. They have electicity in their homes because they are sensible enough to know that food keeps better with refrigerators, and they can lengethen their work day with electric lighting. They can increase production by using milking machines. They keep track of their business very well, thank you, with the computers in the office, and they routinely send out statements, computer-generated, with such homely phrases as "Be not weary in well-doing" printed at the top. They are modern people living a modern world, who have preserved what they consider best from their heritage.

And not a single one of them dresses up in a silly suit like Blatham . . .

And all this time I though it was 100% acceptable and fair to mock Amish online thinking they'd never see it!

Sentanta

As you clearly know, Amish and Mennonite are close cousins. You are in the mid-west? My family (mother's side) were actually really very liberal (mom had a ride-on mixmaster) and we could kiss and dance and wear lipstick and drive Studebakers really really slowly. Lovely post, most enjoyable to read.

I'm playing bloody-hell getting to pages at this site right now . . . must be thanks to a$$hols-on-line, the ISP i'm using . . .

Blatham, you can't stop me, even if you have read this one:

You know why Babdists are opposed to sex ?

They're afraid it might lead to dancing.

If youse guys are drivin' Studebakers, you're sittin' on top of a gold mine, they're extremely hard to find parts for, and i know a Moravian bunch in western Pennsylvania who would kill for an intact Studey in any model between 1948 and 1956.

I'm in Oh-Hi-Oh, which sometimes amazes me, as this state was a target for much derision among my circle of friends when i was younger and drunker . . .

Two points:
1. Even though it is the title of the link, it does seem objectionable to me to have that link title as the title of this thread. When a newbie goes thru the listing of topics, you can imagine what might be thought upon seeing this title! I'd recommend that posters really think twice about what they title a thread as.

We all don't "know" each other and it is so hard to communicate farce/parody at times on the Net.

2. Never ever assume the Mennonite and Amish are not aware of what the English say and do and broadcast! I have had many friends of such persuastion (back in the days I was in Iowa and quilting often). It is perfectly acceptable to have an Amish lady fly on a plane (not hers) or get a ride in a car (not owned by her). It's also ok to 'accidentally' or genuinely accidentally hear the radio or TV. It's ok to have a payphone outside your home "for the convenience" of your customers if you do any business from your home. Oh, and if that phone rings, you can "answer it" to be polite, but you must not initiate that call, lol!

link: Amish Tech Support blog
http://users2.ev1.net/~file13/blog/

<snip>
Here's the Amish Tech Support tips for a less-than-safe Halloween:

Dressing in a costume that might catch fire isn't all bad... I mean, it makes it easier for drivers to see your flaming body as well as hear your screams of panic, right?

It's not okay to give out stale Valentine's Day candy hearts, but it's fine to give out last year's crappy leftovers from Halloween. What gives?

A Safe Sex Halloween is a great theme, but some kids might be too young for condoms. So....

ah, Setanta! You are from the state that just legally authorized each community and school district to allow the teaching of Creationism in their public schools, right? LOL I hear it starts January 1.

The fastest way to find Amish ladies in Central Oh-Hi-Oh is to head for the nearest Walmart or outlet Mall . . . if K-Mart advertises a sale, and they've got something you want, you better get yer butt down there in less time than it takes to drive from Plain City--otherwise, there'll be nothin' left . . .

Cobalt, i'm not from here, i'm just trapped here . . .

And despair not, the Board of Education has adopted a policy that "Creationism" is not science, and cannot be introduced as such . . . it's one of those common legislative practices of political grandstanding: the state house gives the local loonies the go-ahead to "teach Creationism," and the Board of Education denies state funds for the purpose . . . more later from the state who sent it's boys to fight Hitler because he was considered a dangerous liberal . . .

cobalt - you're right about the title; I just changed it. In fact, if you ever create something with a title you realize later wasn't a good idea, just go to the first post (it has to be your post, unless you have Moderator status, which is fishin', the Administrator and myself) and edit it. Just change the title, click submit and you're done.

cavfancier - sorry to change your title but I do agree about maybe keeping that in the body of the topic and not in its title.

Members of the Mennonite community here wear those little caps, but drive and use machinery like anyone else. Lamp and Light is published in Farm town, by the way.

My goodness! Anabaptists come pouring over the walls! The Studebaker reference related to the driving habits of local Mennonite farmers (who had a curious preference for the Stude, perhaps because the front end looked so jet-age modern - 'if we are going to get liberal, let's get REALLY liberal') during my youth. But like you folks point out, among Amish, Mennonite, and Hutterite there is a pretty broad range of practice and belief, with one splinter group worshipping Beelzebub and centering their rituals around a vinyl intimacy-companion which has long auburn hair and the face of Jesse Helms.

Blatham, it's a pure pleasure to read the posts of someone with such an erudite grasp of the nuances of theological variance among our charismatic bretheren and sisterns . . . um, you know, the ladies . . . maybe i'll just shut up now . . . [/size][/i][/b]