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What makes 1 Church any different from any other Church?

 
 
daverod
 
Reply Tue 20 Nov, 2018 12:42 am
What makes 1 Church any different from any other Church? Not too much. Each has its beliefs, its doctrines, its customs, its rules, its main points. Not too much is different from 1 Church to any other Church.

What is lacking in many Churches?

Ephesians 4:11-12 "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:"

What are apostles? What are prophets? What are evangelists, and pastors and teachers? What are ministers and deacons and bishops?

Why are the Churches 'lacking' in having these persons in their Congregation(s)?

If the 'evangelists' are the ones who are supposed to 'preach' the good message/Word/glad tidings, then what are the 'pastors' supposed to do?

2099. euaggelistés
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
evangelist.
From euaggelizo; a preacher of the gospel -- evangelist.

2097. euaggelizó
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
declare, bring good tidings, preach the gospel.
From eu and aggelos; to announce good news ("evangelize") especially the gospel -- declare, bring (declare, show) glad (good) tidings, preach (the gospel).


pastor:
4166. poimén
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
shepherd, pastor.
Of uncertain affinity; a shepherd (literally or figuratively) -- shepherd, pastor.
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daverod
 
  0  
Reply Tue 20 Nov, 2018 01:03 am
@daverod,
One thing could be to separate the 'good' from the 'bad' or the 'bad' from the 'good'.

Matthew 25:32 "And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:"


Rather than sheep from goats, maybe sheep from wolves.


Acts 20:29 "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock."

grievous:
926. barus
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
grievous, heavy, burdensome
From the same as baros; weighty, i.e. (fig) burdensome, grave -- grievous, heavy, weightier.

see GREEK baros


wolves:
3074. lukos
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
wolf.
Perhaps akin to the base of leukos (from the whitish hair); a wolf -- wolf.

3022. leukos
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
white.
From luke ("light"); white -- white.


Matthew 11:30 "For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."


Luke 11:46 "And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers."

you burden:
5412. phortizó
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
to load, burden
From phortos; to load up (properly, as a vessel or animal), i.e. (figuratively) to overburden with ceremony (or spiritual anxiety) -- lade, by heavy laden.


Here is a trustworthy test:

Even if you have learned to bear the weight through patience and exercising of 'faith', ask yourself this question.

Is truth, when presented, easy to receive or is it difficult? From this, you might be able to gauge where you are within the road/path of righteousness for His Name's Sake.
daverod
 
  0  
Reply Tue 20 Nov, 2018 01:22 am
@daverod,
If for inner 'thoughts' one can be seen or thought to be 'hell bound', then the inner 'cleansing' belongs unto God, who searches the heart and soul.

And if God is doing His job upon that person, especially after have been 'baptized' of water and of spirit, then that person should have more reassurance of God working in and upon that life.


Acts 8:34-37 "And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? 35Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. "


Christians do not have too much problems accepting (J)esus Christ to be The Son of God. However, Muslims do. In their Qur'an, it states that God does not have a 'son'. So how could God have a 'Son' in Christianity but not have a 'son' in Islam?

Several points:

1.The Son- not as in 'ordinarily begotten male children', but as in The Only Begotten in another way.

2. Son
5207. huios
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
son, child, foal
Apparently a primary word; a "son" (sometimes of animals), used very widely of immediate, remote or figuratively, kinship -- child, foal, son.


So Christ (J)esus would fit into the 'huios' definition since The Qur'an states that (J)esus, the son of Mary, is the Messiah.

003:045
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
[And mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allah].

And since (J)esus Christ was the 'Perfect and final 'blood' sacrifice' for 'sins', He would fit that definition.

So to Islam, had Allah not given (J)esus Christ to be that 'Perfect and final Sacrifice' for sin, there would be no New Testament. We would still be living under daily 'animal sacrifices' and Penalty laws.
daverod
 
  0  
Reply Tue 20 Nov, 2018 01:39 am
@daverod,
Quote:
So to Islam, had Allah not given (J)esus Christ to be that 'Perfect and final Sacrifice' for sin, there would be no New Testament. We would still be living under daily 'animal sacrifices' and Penalty laws.



I do not know what life might have been like as a Gentile during the Old Testament days, but if Y'srael had their daily sacrifices and penalty laws still intact, I do not know how any Gentile nation might have prospered without getting entangled in some form of violence in one way or another had God not given His Only Begotten 'Son' to be the 'Perfect and final Sacrifice' for 'sin(s)'. For both Y'srael and to the Gentiles.


There are some 'theories' floating around.

Some are: During the millennium(s) after Christ (J)esus' ascension, there was chaos.

and

During the millennium(s) after Christ (J)esus' ascension, there was 'peace'.

both compared to how 'life' was like previous to Christ (J)esus' ascension.

If John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." is a promise:

should perish:
622. apollumi
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
From apo and the base of olethros; to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively -- destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.


Why would I believe that God would 'lie' to any who does/did place their belief in Him, His Only Begotten Son?


Acts 8:34-37 "And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? 35Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. "
daverod
 
  0  
Reply Tue 20 Nov, 2018 01:52 am
@daverod,
Acts 8:26-40

Philip and the Ethiopian
"And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert. 27And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, 28Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. 29Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. 30And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? 31And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

32The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

33In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

34And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? 35Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. 39And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. 40But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea."
daverod
 
  0  
Reply Tue 20 Nov, 2018 01:55 am
@daverod,
Acts 19:23-41 "And the same time there arose no small stir about that way. 24For a certain man named Demetrius, a silversmith, which made silver shrines for Diana, brought no small gain unto the craftsmen; 25Whom he called together with the workmen of like occupation, and said, Sirs, ye know that by this craft we have our wealth. 26Moreover ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are made with hands: 27So that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth.

28And when they heard these sayings, they were full of wrath, and cried out, saying, Great is Diana of the Ephesians. 29And the whole city was filled with confusion: and having caught Gaius and Aristarchus, men of Macedonia, Paul's companions in travel, they rushed with one accord into the theatre. 30And when Paul would have entered in unto the people, the disciples suffered him not. 31And certain of the chief of Asia, which were his friends, sent unto him, desiring him that he would not adventure himself into the theatre. 32Some therefore cried one thing, and some another: for the assembly was confused; and the more part knew not wherefore they were come together. 33And they drew Alexander out of the multitude, the Jews putting him forward. And Alexander beckoned with the hand, and would have made his defence unto the people. 34But when they knew that he was a Jew, all with one voice about the space of two hours cried out, Great is Diana of the Ephesians. 35And when the townclerk had appeased the people, he said, Ye men of Ephesus, what man is there that knoweth not how that the city of the Ephesians is a worshipper of the great goddess Diana, and of the image which fell down from Jupiter? 36Seeing then that these things cannot be spoken against, ye ought to be quiet, and to do nothing rashly. 37For ye have brought hither these men, which are neither robbers of churches, nor yet blasphemers of your goddess. 38Wherefore if Demetrius, and the craftsmen which are with him, have a matter against any man, the law is open, and there are deputies: let them implead one another. 39But if ye inquire any thing concerning other matters, it shall be determined in a lawful assembly. 40For we are in danger to be called in question for this day's uproar, there being no cause whereby we may give an account of this concourse. 41And when he had thus spoken, he dismissed the assembly."


Let us assume for a moment that this Ephesus was in some kind of 'majick' worship which they truly believed to be a reality, such as some Voodoo practitioners believe. If it was such a place and with such an uproar, what did God do to Ephesus and how did the persons living there and the Christians who were there fare while and after this occurred?
daverod
 
  0  
Reply Tue 20 Nov, 2018 01:58 am
@daverod,
Exodus 7:8-13; 14-25
"And the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying, 9When Pharaoh shall speak unto you, saying, Shew a miracle for you: then thou shalt say unto Aaron, Take thy rod, and cast it before Pharaoh, and it shall become a serpent. 10And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the LORD had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent. 11Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments. 12For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods. 13And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said."


What if for these sorts of reasons, might Ephesus or any other 'place' belief that God might be insincere in His Might?


14And the LORD said unto Moses, Pharaoh's heart is hardened, he refuseth to let the people go. 15Get thee unto Pharaoh in the morning; lo, he goeth out unto the water; and thou shalt stand by the river's brink against he come; and the rod which was turned to a serpent shalt thou take in thine hand. 16And thou shalt say unto him, The LORD God of the Hebrews hath sent me unto thee, saying, Let my people go, that they may serve me in the wilderness: and, behold, hitherto thou wouldest not hear. 17Thus saith the LORD, In this thou shalt know that I am the LORD: behold, I will smite with the rod that is in mine hand upon the waters which are in the river, and they shall be turned to blood. 18And the fish that is in the river shall die, and the river shall stink; and the Egyptians shall lothe to drink of the water of the river. 19And the LORD spake unto Moses, Say unto Aaron, Take thy rod, and stretch out thine hand upon the waters of Egypt, upon their streams, upon their rivers, and upon their ponds, and upon all their pools of water, that they may become blood; and that there may be blood throughout all the land of Egypt, both in vessels of wood, and in vessels of stone.

20And Moses and Aaron did so, as the LORD commanded; and he lifted up the rod, and smote the waters that were in the river, in the sight of Pharaoh, and in the sight of his servants; and all the waters that were in the river were turned to blood. 21And the fish that was in the river died; and the river stank, and the Egyptians could not drink of the water of the river; and there was blood throughout all the land of Egypt. 22And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said. 23And Pharaoh turned and went into his house, neither did he set his heart to this also. 24And all the Egyptians digged round about the river for water to drink; for they could not drink of the water of the river. 25And seven days were fulfilled, after that the LORD had smitten the river.


Exodus 8:1-7; 16-19
"And the LORD spake unto Moses, Go unto Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Let my people go, that they may serve me. 2And if thou refuse to let them go, behold, I will smite all thy borders with frogs: 3And the river shall bring forth frogs abundantly, which shall go up and come into thine house, and into thy bedchamber, and upon thy bed, and into the house of thy servants, and upon thy people, and into thine ovens, and into thy kneadingtroughs: 4And the frogs shall come up both on thee, and upon thy people, and upon all thy servants. 5And the LORD spake unto Moses, Say unto Aaron, Stretch forth thine hand with thy rod over the streams, over the rivers, and over the ponds, and cause frogs to come up upon the land of Egypt. 6And Aaron stretched out his hand over the waters of Egypt; and the frogs came up, and covered the land of Egypt. 7And the magicians did so with their enchantments, and brought up frogs upon the land of Egypt."

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Say unto Aaron, Stretch out thy rod, and smite the dust of the land, that it may become lice throughout all the land of Egypt. 17And they did so; for Aaron stretched out his hand with his rod, and smote the dust of the earth, and it became lice in man, and in beast; all the dust of the land became lice throughout all the land of Egypt. 18And the magicians did so with their enchantments to bring forth lice, but they could not: so there were lice upon man, and upon beast. 19Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said."


Why only until 'now' did they not know that it was God all along?


Are some, today, as prehistoric, in knowledge and understanding, as they might have been then pertaining to any Holy and Sacred Texts?


Imagine what Moses might have thought or did if after serving The LORD God for as fully as he did The LORD God decided to go the other way?

Why did Moses not enter into the Promised Land? Some say it was due to his speech to which he made at the springs of water that he did not. I'm unsure.
daverod
 
  0  
Reply Tue 20 Nov, 2018 02:15 am
@daverod,
Scripture says it was due to the Sons of Y'srael which did not follow after The LORD God's command to go up and take the city that was filled with the 'Giants'.

It was after this incident that Y'srael within the desert was told that none of those that came out of Egypt would enter into The Promised Land except (J)oshua and Caleb and those born in the 'wilderness'. And Moses, probably fell asleep with the others, they being of 'old' age.

It was also after this disobedience that the fire broke out in the tents of Korah.

Furthermore, the Israelites who did not like what had happened to Korah, Dathan, and Abiram (and their families) objected to Moses, and God then commanded Moses to depart from the multitude. God then smote 14,700 men with plague, as punishment for objecting to Korah's destruction (Numbers 16:41ff.)

"Notwithstanding, the children of Korah died not" (as of Numbers 26:11)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korah


probably because they were born within the 'wilderness'.

Quote:
Why did Moses not enter into the Promised Land? Some say it was due to his speech to which he made at the springs of water that he did not. I'm unsure.


Some say that it was his speech which 'gave self glory' for the reason why he did not enter into The Promised Land.
daverod
 
  0  
Reply Tue 20 Nov, 2018 02:34 am
@daverod,
A prominent person of the SDA congregation/Denomination wrote something of this topic. She mentioned how that to give glory to self is a very dangerous thing. I agree.

But rather than saying 'giving glory to self', why not say, 'working together'? Rather than saying 'all belongs to The LORD God', even in matters of faith and growth, why am I unable to say, 'It is with 'our' working together that the growth occurs' and to this, the giving glory to self would be even the more out of place, or way off target.


This, to me, is a closer walk with The LORD God (J)esus Christ. To be able to see the absurdity of such a comment.

1 Corinthians 12:12 "For as the body is one,..so also is Christ."

1 Corinthians 12:15 "If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?"


absurdity. LOL .. hahahahaha

'I walk alone on the path of Righteousness although it IS He Who Leads in the Path(s) of Righteousness, or rather, His Paths of Righteousness, for His Own Sake but I did it alone'. hahahahaha.... too absurd.


Talk about a complete 'blindness' in part.

To be able to say such a self thing on His Path would not last for very/too long of time.

The person would begin to lose sight, lose path and end up somewhere wondering how he/she ended up where he/she did.

If you don't keep your eyes on the 'Guide' on unknown journeys, you have a high likelihood of getting 'lost'.

I guess there is a difference then. Between self glorifying and keeping in step. To be able to self glorify, the person might not be 'walking'. To keep in step, the person is too busy 'following'.
daverod
 
  0  
Reply Tue 20 Nov, 2018 02:51 am
@daverod,
Luke 13:32 "And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected."

Go ye.. walk ye.. and tell that person(s)... Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

For the 'admins', or administrations in Churches..

Type and tell that person(s).. There was no letter 'J' in Hebrew then nor now.

The WAW did not turn itself into the VAV as if because of 'majick'.

And also type [ye] that YHWH is not God but rather, The Father.


And as the 'evangelists' begin to preach these good tidings and as the pastors begin to shepherd and as the ministers begin to do labor of Church and as apostles are 'sent forth' and as teachers begin to teach in Truth and as prophets begin to bring The Old Testament back and as the bishops begin to oversee the whole and as disciples begin to receive the True milk and meat of The Word, Saints will become edified in the Armor of God.

And God is not YHWH or (J)esus Christ, although they are very closely related.

Smile


But can you understand how a Guide who is leading a person through the Wilderness also has certain 'responsibilities' He needs to keep, also?
daverod
 
  0  
Reply Tue 20 Nov, 2018 03:08 am
@daverod,
John 6:66-68 "From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 67Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life."


Or in other words, 'Lord? are you serious? We will get lost trying to find our way back'!

Besides, "...we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God." - John 6:69


Was His question a question of faith or of sureness? Did they know, could they 'see' that they were on a strange journey/path?

Was HE seeing if they 'saw' or knew? Was HE making sure that they 'knew' what they were on?

And so His question might have been a little 'absurd'???


'Are you really SERIOUS?????' 'Lord, do you not like our company'?

Absurd!


Although He is very nice, He also has His own Humor which He only shares with His God and Father, right?

Smile


Are we not guilty of the same things? Having those little side 'winks' and 'jokes' with close bosom partners when another is in the company, however close they might be?

'But They are Perfect', I say.

Then i guess they don't drop a morsel of food or spill a drop of water at dinner or anywhere else, then..

Just probably a lot less than others.. Or more, depending on the crowd and the point They might want to 'make'.

Oh, but the joys! The joys!!
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RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Nov, 2018 11:57 pm
Easy answer. My church is right, your church is wrong.
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