Wanna show some more skin?

Maybe I should start a new thread on what my thingie means? I bet Indian members could help.

Meantime, another possible clue: BHARGO



http://www.students.ncl.ac.uk/satheesh.krishnamurthy/gayathri_manthra.htm

I found that when I remembered the symbol is supposed to be Sanskrit, and plugged that into my searches.

As in, I think it's akin to OM -- both a word and the Sanskrit symbol for that word. But this one's something else ("detroyer of ignorance").

OK, Shiva is the destroyer of ignorance (you brought him up too, Dag) -- I googled "Shiva's thunderbolt"

Ooh!



http://www.thamel.com/htms/religions.htm

This is very, very similar but it has "OM" in the middle instead.



I think the surrounding stuff is definitely vajra/ dorje etc., but what's that thing in the middle that's not "OM"?

that character, in Devanagari script ( used for sanskrit, too) means long u (as in fool)... that don't help much, does it.... but it could be related to om, things are spelled so very differently from region to region.
but it looks like you nailed it! cool. I like Shiva even more now.

hmmm, the thunderbolt, Vajra, is said to belong also to Indra, god of thunder, remover of resistance....
Ultimately, reading Mahabharata and Ramayana would provide the answers, but who has the time.... I want to, one day. When i'm done with the Bible (which is driving me up the wall, honestly. I don't remember any book making me SO angry SO often!)

http://www.jnanam.net/indra/
Indra the Storm-God:
images, information and worship/puja


Shri Indra was the favourite national god of the Vedic Indians, with about 250 hymns dedicated to him in the Rigveda, more than those devoted to any other god and almost one fourth of the total number of hymns of the Rigveda.

Shri Indra is the god of thunder, being similar in many ways to the Teutonic Thor (Old Norse Þorr; Old English Þunor; German Donner), or Greek Zeus/Roman Jupiter. Like Thor, he is described in the Rigveda as red- or tawny-beared (RV 10.23,4), though the extant sculpture and carvings seem to invariably show him as beardless. His characteristic weapon is the cudgel vajra ('thunder-bolt'), just as Thor's is the famous hammer Mjöllnir. Shri Indra is the pre-eminent drinker of the divine soma (the madhu or 'mead' of the gods), the imbibing of which exhilerates him and aids him in his heroic actions.

Shri Indra's most important deed is the slaying of the asura ('demon') Vritra, who is a Dragon (ahi). Vritra hoards and encloses the vital elements of the universe: waters, light, cows, and Shri Indra struggled in order to free these life-sustaining treasures from the grasp of the dragon Vritra (whose very name, vrtra, means 'the Encloser, the Obstructer') and release them into the world. And he must continually struggle against this Dragon (ahi), who represents the forces of Chaos and Non-Existence (asat).This is why one of Shri Indra's epithets is vrtrahan 'slayer of Vritra, overcomer of resistance'. By defeating these forces he separates and supports heaven and earth (RV 5.29). The Norse thunder-god Thor too battles against the midgardsorm ('serpent of Middle-Earth') at various times, as do other Indo-European Storm-Gods, such as the Hittite Tarhunnas (the weather-god) against the dragon Illuyankas.

In his battle with Vritra and other demons, such as Namuci (na-muci 'he who won't release'), his especial friend is Shri Vishnu (RV 1.22,19), who is often described as helping Indra to defeat Vritra. Vishnu's function in the battle with Vritra seems to be primarily to 'make space' by means of his famous three strides, for Indra, about to slay Vritra, says to Vishnu: 'O my friend Vishnu, stride out widely' (RV 4.18,11). The association of Arjuna (son of Indra) and Shri Krishna (avatara of Vishnu), especially in their companionship during the Mahabharata battle, is thus prefigured by this association of Shri Indra and Vishnu.

By worship and sacrifice (especially soma-sacrifice, as soma-drinking increases Indra's strength and vigour), humans on earth help Indra in his struggles, e.g.:

'Sacrifice, Indra, made you grow so mighty, the dear oblation with the pressed soma.
O Worshipful, with sacrifice help our sacrifice, for sacrifice helped your vajra when slaying the dragon'.
(Rigveda 3.32,12; cf. RV i.63,2)

OK, I found it. Google 'sanskrit, thunderbolt'

http://www.khandro.net/ritual_vajra.htm

The character in the middle is Hum - here, look:

Structure of the Vajra
Robert Beer in The Encyclopedia of Tibetan Symbols and Motifs explains the elements of the five-pronged vajra:

At the centre of the vajra is a flattened sphere representing the dharmata as the 'sphere of actual reality.' This sphere is sealed within by the syllable HUM, whose three component sounds represent freedom from karma ([the Sanskrit letter,] Hetu,) freedom from conceptual thought (Uha) and the groundlessness of all dharmas (M.)

On either side of the central hub are three rings [which] symbolise the spontaneous bliss of Buddha nature as emptiness, signlessness and effortlessness.

Emerging from the three rings on either side are two eight-petalled lotuses. The sixteen petals represent the sixteen modes of emptiness. The upper lotus petals also represent the eight bodhisattvas, and the eight lower petals, the eight female consorts.

Above the lotus bases are another series of three pearl-like rings, which collectively represents the six perfections of patience, generosity, discipline, effort, meditation and wisdom. A full moon disc crowns each of the lotuses, symbolising the full realisation of absolute and relative bodhichitta.

Emerging from the moon discs are five tapering prongs, forming a spherical cluster or cross. The four [outer] ... prongs curve inwards to the central prong, symbolising that the four aggregates of form, feeling, perception and motivation depend upon the fifth aggregate of consciousness. The five upper prongs of the vajra represent the Five Buddhas (Akshobhya,Vairochana, Ratnasambhava, Amitabha and Amogasiddhi,) and the unity of their five wisdoms, attributes and qualities. The five lower prongs represent the female consorts of the Five Buddhas (Mamaki, Lochana, Vajradhatvishvari, Pandara and Tara) and the unity of their qualities and attributes. The Five Buddhas and their consorts symbolise the elimination of the five aggregates of personality. The ten prongs together symbolise the ten perfections (the six mentioned above plus skilful means, aspiration, inner strength, and pure awareness;) the 'ten grounds' or progressive levels of realisation of a bodhisattva; and the ten directions.

Each of the outer prongs arise from the heads of Makaras (sea monster). The four Makaras symbolise the four immeasurables (compassion, love, sympathetic joy and equanimity;) the four doors of liberation (emptiness, signlessness, wishlessness and lack of composition;) the conquest of the four Maras (emotional defilements, passion, death, divine pride and lust;) the four activities or karmas; the four purified elements (air, fire, water, earth;) and the four joys (joy, supreme joy, the joy of cessation and innate joy.)

The tips at the end of the central prong may be shaped like a tapering pyramid or four-faceted jewel, which represents Mount Meru as the axial centre of both the outer macrocosm and inner microcosm.

The twin faces of the symmetrical vajra represent the unity of relative and absolute truth.

Nine Points

Sometimes a vajra is depicted / described as having 9 rather than 5 tips at the ends. This form seems to be related to the nine stages of the Nyingmapas. According to Jeff Watt, some older Tibetan texts refer to the "regular" 5-pointed vajra as a " 9- pointed vajra." In this case, the enumeration derives from the 1 central prong that extends from one end to the other, plus the 4 prongs at each end that surround the tips.

still same source...last post, I swear. want to be able to find this later...

Vajra Buddhas
There are 5 buddha families; two are associated with the dorje. Akshobhya is the Vajra Family buddha, the primordial Buddha associated with vijnana (consciousness) sometimes described as 'space' or aether [ether]. In his primordial form, he is a.k.a. Vajradhara [thunderbolt bearer.] He is two-armed and one-faced, and sits in the solidly fixed vajraparyanka pose with his left hand resting on his lap face up. His right forearm extends over the right knee so that the tip of the middle finger touches the earth. This gesture is called the bhusparsha (earth-touching) mudra. His seed syllable is a blue HUM.

OM KAMKANI KAMKANI ROTSANI ROTSANI TROTANI TROTANI TRASANI TRASANI PRATIHANA PRATIHANA SARVA KARMA PARAM PARA NIME SARVA SATTVA NÄNYTSA SOHA

The vehicle, or mount, of Akshobya is a pair of elephants. When represented on a stupa or mandala, he faces the east. His consort or shakti is Lochana.

Vajrapani, though an epithet or nickname of Lord Sakra that is, Indra, king of the gods, is also the name of the bodhisattva who commonly appears in Tibetan Buddhist iconography at the left hand of Amitabha. (On the right is Avalokiteshvara -- in Tibetan, Chenresi.) Vajrapani or Wielder of the Dorje raises it in his right hand or calmly balances it upon/just over his palm. In Tibetan, Vajrapani is called Chana-dorje.

Vajrasattva is the white bodhisattva of purification. He is depicted with the vajra of skill raised to his chest while the bell (Skt.: ghanta) of wisdom which complements it, is inverted and silent at his hip.

See Samayasattva [Damtsik Dorje] holding many dorjes.

Wrathful Vajrasattva, 15th-century bronze at Argainc.com




The Vajra Cross
Before time began, there was only darkness and the emptiness that is the Void. A gentle wind arose from the four directions that, over time, filled the Void. It began to grow in power until, after eons had passed, the wind coalesced into a substance so thick, so heavy, so solid, so immutable that it formed Dorje Gyatram, the vajra cross that is the basis of the physical universe.

The double dorje (visvavajra) is also associated with Amogasiddhi (Tibetan: Donyo drupa), who is the Karma family buddha whose name means Unfailing Accomplishment. His activity transmutes the klesha or imperfection of jealousy. His activity is the subtle one of diminishing attachment. He is green in color, his left hand rests in his lap in the mudra of equanimity and his right at chest level palm outwards in the "granting protection" or "not to fear" gesture. His consort is Damtsig Dolma, Green Tara.

The vishvavajra, (vishwa or vishva is Sanskrit for world with the connotation of "the universe as we experience it," and it means the double dorje or crossed dorjes. It stands for the stability or foundation of the physical world. This is a mark often used as a seal or stamp and may be found impressed or incised on the plate at the base of a statue that protects and keeps prayers/relics inside. It is also the emblem of certain Buddhist deities whose influence encourages immoveable determination.

See Karmasattva a.k.a. Vishvapani, [Tib.: Chakna Natsho Dorje] bearing a 5-coloured double dorje.

In the Hindu tradition, the Lord Sustainer-of-the-World is called Vishnu.

In the Indian epic The Mahabharata, Vishnu in his form as Krishna reveals the ultimate nature of the terrible activity at the battlefield of Kurukshetra as a divine manifestation called Vishvarupa that is "brighter than a thousand suns."

See an Indian military award with double dorje.

Oooh, this is so great, thanks Dasha!

Hey, I found one with exactly the right thingie in the middle! Mine was upside down -- oops!



I don't have all my wits about me so sorry if you said this and I missed it -- you say the thingie in the middle is "hum", but what is "hum"?

Here's another, other way 'round :-?:

http://www.keithdowman.net/art/nyingmaicons/ni94.htm

Hey, I found my card!



The stuff written on it is what I remember from the back -- indestructible, thunderbolt, etc.

(Sorry if this is way too much of a digression, I can probably ask to have this split out. We keep getting closer though and I want to know what that center thing means!)

OK, re-read Dag's posts and did some more research and I finally get it. It's the character "hum" from "om mani padme hum." "Hum" is the syllable that purifies aggression and hatred. Here's another picture of "hum," looking like mine.



(Far left.)

OK, I'm good. Thanks again, Dasha!

Soz, it wasn't upside down, you had it right. theirs is upside down. and your card, right above, needs to be rotated 90 degrees to the right.

the writing in the middle is indeed HUM (not om, it is the 'hum' from "Om mane padmi hum"") and i am 97%sure that your card is indeed exactly the same as the brass pendant i have - the vajra cross. Indra, Shiva, and Vajrapani are the same guy, who rules the Thunderbolt, made out of Dhadachi's spine, that also rules five elements, eliminates five (or was it six)? vices, through five good qualities, each under the guidance of five Boddhisatvas.... It is also the origin of universe, unity between relative and ultimate truth, male and female principles. It also has power to protect, exorcise demons (because Indra's thunderbolt slayed a demon dragon that captured the five elements of life) and repel evil...

That's the summary of what I learnt about it today - though it could be a hodgepodge of a few things that should not go together... I think they do though.

...but you're right it might be worthwhile to snip it off and put in a new thread...that was quite a digression.... ooops

To bring it back somewhat on topic, I definitely wouldn't want to divorce the "hum" from the rest of it, now. It's actually what I thought was mostly decoration that's the core of the "destroyer of ignorance" power, and that's what I've liked most. Though I like "hum" too, so if I get it I'll get the whole shebang.

it's purty and full of meaningful symbolism. you couldn't possibly choose better, soz. ...not because i have one on my back myself or anything...

Uh-oh, at this rate I'm going to the tattoo parlor tomorrow...

I was looking up more about "hum." I found out that "om mani padme hum" is the mantra of "bodhisattva of compassion, Avalokiteshvara." Clicked on Avalokiteshvara, and whaddya know, that's a version of the selfsame Goddess of Compassion (Guan Yin or Kuan Yin) who's our household favorite. (We have Chinese and Thai versions of her prominently displayed.)

so... i'm wondering what's going on. it's summer, it's hot. i've been working out at the gym almost every day. usually i take a shower at the gym, but if i don't- if i bike home from there and it takes awhile before i shower, my tattoo starts itching uncontrollably. and when i scratch it with my hair brush (it's on my back! i can't not scratch it, and believe me, i have a high threshold of pain and related stuff), it naturally stands up and swells a little.

can i be mildly allergic? I know i'm allergic to sweat a little. does sweat react with ink and cause more irritation? am i doomed forever? i cannot shower at the gym every single time. and there are other times that i might sweat and not be able to shower right away...and why is this happening one year after i got a tattoo but not before? (well, actually, i wasn't going to the gym as much...and it wasn't summer). anyhow. ack! that's what i have to say.

My tattoo becomes raised in hot weather. I dunno about the itching bit.

Sweat dries, leaving behind salt. Salt acts as an abrasive, causing irritation to the skin.

Lots of foot blisters caused by sweaty feet...