Would you be comfortable if you witnessed someone forcing their beliefs upon someone else?

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Would your opinion change if it were your own beliefs that were being forced upon someone?

Would your opinion change if the person being forced, held beliefs that you strongly disagree with?

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[+3] - maxdancona - 02/11/2018Child marriage has been demonized. Anyone one who supports child marriage will be afraid to express their opinions. I am OK with that. It seems that in some cases this is reasonable. I am a...
[+3] - maxdancona - 02/11/2018To answer you question. 1) I absolutely support if Richard Spencer is mocked, discredited, called a bigot, yelled at and hated. 2) I would not support arresting Richard Spencer, beating him,...

@HBurgess98,

What does it mean to "force" your beliefs on someone? Are we talking about persuading someone with words? Or are we talking about beating someone until they agree?

Our society forces us to believe things... if you don't believe them (or at least comply with them) you will have a pretty hard life. Our society has the idea that individuals can own property, and if you take property that belongs to someone else, we have police that will arrest you and you will likely be confined in jail. Other societies don't believe in ownership of property.

You will have to specify what this question means.

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@maxdancona,

Yeah. sorry. I phrased that very badly. I mean that if someone were to try to prevent another side of an argument to exist, by demonizing it. Making those whom espouse those views afraid to express their opinions because they fear the backlash. Would you be comfortable with that kind of approach to ideological discourse?

that was dumb of me to to try to squeeze all that into one sentence.

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@HBurgess98,

Child marriage has been demonized. Anyone one who supports child marriage will be afraid to express their opinions. I am OK with that.

It seems that in some cases this is reasonable. I am a strong proponent of free speech, but society also has values and certain things that are considered to be very offensive.

I find White Supremacy to be very offensive and I think Richard Spencer's rhetoric and message is unacceptable. I don't want him censored since I believe in free speech... but it is very healthy for society at large to portray him as despicable.

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@HBurgess98,

To answer you question.

1) I absolutely support if Richard Spencer is mocked, discredited, called a bigot, yelled at and hated.

2) I would not support arresting Richard Spencer, beating him, putting him in jail or preventing him from speaking.

That's the line I draw.

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You cannot force a belief on anyone. You might, if you had enough power in society, force someone to accept your beliefs in silence. But you cannot force someone to believe them.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

You cannot force a belief on anyone. You might, if you had enough power in society, force someone to accept your beliefs in silence. But you cannot force someone to believe them.

Society can attempt to discourage people who have certain beliefs from acts flowing from those beliefs, e.g. laws can be passed forbidding halal and kosher slaughter of meat animals, or discrimination against gays, e.g. by hotel owners. Your religion might hold that black people are hewers of wood and drawers of water, but refuse them a meal in your restaurant or a hotel room, and you'll get a fine where I come from.

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@centrox,

We have all been inculcated into our society. We all believe things, with our hearts, that are part of this inculcation. If we happened to have been born in another culture or time, our beliefs would be quite different.

We think our beliefs are our own. But really they were forced upon us by the society into which we happened to be born and raised.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

We think our beliefs are our own. But really they were forced upon us by the society into which we happened to be born and raised.

Did "society" force Nigel Farage to be a Europhobe and Trump admirer, and me to be a Remoaner and Corbynista?

1 Reply

@centrox,

Culturally you and Nigel Farage are quite similar compared to a middle class person in Aztec or Masai or Yanomama. Both of you have a place in modern British culture. Neither of you would be able to live in Aztec culture without completely abandoning your cultural beliefs.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Culturally you and Nigel Farage are quite similar compared to a middle class person in Aztec or Masai or Yanomama.

I'm not planning to go and live among the Aztecs any time soon.

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@centrox,

While acknowledging the force of your argument, that does not in fact change the beliefs of those compelled by the law to do what they do not believe in. Furthermore, the OP does not refer to government. I don't believe that is what the author had in mind. The author, of course, can speak for him- or herself.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

While acknowledging the force of your argument, that does not in fact change the beliefs of those compelled by the law to do what they do not believe in.

I did not intend to imply that it would; I am very much aware that the law is incapable of altering people's beliefs, only of (hopefully) dissuading actions and sanctioning them if they occur. I thought I had worded my post to imply that.

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I don't waste my time reading Max's post, although I occasionally see quotes from them. Effectively, the Aztecs ceased to exist after the 1522 conquest of Tenochtitlan by the Spanish. Subsequent epidemics very likely carried off the handful of survivors of that conquest, which saw the Spaniard and his Indian allies fighting street to street, and killing off just about everyone they came across. It took 22 months to reduce the city.

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@centrox,

No criticism was intended.

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@Setanta,

My dear Setanta,

It is amazing how many times you mention me by name while insisting that you don't pay attention to me.

Your constant attention is what keeps me here.

Let's just admit publicly this connection between us. You can't quit me any more than I you. You complete me

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@Setanta,

The point is that we are controlled by the societies in which we exist. I am not sure if Setanta is keeping up with the discussion.

The beliefs and values that Setanta expresses are completely appropriate for the modern Western culture in which he finds himself. They would be quite out of line in any culture throughout nhistory that hasn't been deeply influenced by his culture.

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@HBurgess98,

Quote:

Would you be comfortable if you witnessed someone forcing their beliefs upon someone else?

Yes, I would be uncomfortable if I witnessed someone forcing their beliefs upon someone else. I have no problem with someone discussing their belief in a non-threatening peaceful manner as long as they are not inciting violence and things of that nature.

Quote:

Would your opinion change if it were your own beliefs that were being forced upon someone?

Quote:

Would your opinion change if the person being forced, held beliefs that you strongly disagree with?

0 Replies

@HBurgess98,

Are you discussing the USA?

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