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How the banks steal your money in the form of a loan

 
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2017 08:16 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
Yet when Max withdrew that money to buy the car, the bank provided real money.

So Max went in and asked the bank to loan him twenty thousand dollars in cash so that he could carry that cash over to the car dealer? That's not how the process is done. But the bank has cash on hand to pay workers' when they cash their checks, and for other such things. But where do you think that cash came from? It came from the Federal Reserve. And where do you think the Federal Reserve got it? We'll talk more about that later.

At any rate, Max will be replacing that loan, and at the same time, the bank will be lending out many multiples of that amount (out of thin air) and receiving interest on each of those multiples. And please don't say this is not so; I've provided ample proof of this from reputable sources to which your rebuttal has been: But Max has a car and so all is well.

At this point, I'm going to ask you to give me your description of fractional reserve banking. Then I'll know what you do and don't believe about it, and we can go on from there. But do keep in mind that in an open letter from the Institute of Certified Public Accountants to the FASB and the IASB, they said that the idea of banks' electronic credits as actually being cash is in breach of Generally Accepted Accounting Principles and the International Financial Reporting Standards.

Also, I claimed that the video below explains in no uncertain terms what the consequences of the modern money system are to people. Tell me which parts you have determined are false. Then we can do the research to get to the bottom of your confusion concerning the pitfalls of money multiplication.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23DNe0cJhcU

maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2017 08:26 pm
@Glennn,
The people who write your propaganda videos seem to be in favor of the gold standard. The question that neither you, nor they, have answered is Who cares?.

We have a strong economy where people like you and me can work, inflation is low, technology is advancing. Companies are being created, houses are being built, bought and sold, progress is being made, the standard of living is improving. We now all have TVs and cars and the internet and clean water and microwaves.

The economy, with the banking system, is working. You are basically whining about nothing.

You say you don't want to return to the gold standard. So what do you want? If you replace the banking system. What would you replace it with? I work for a company that is built on credit (my job is being paid for by a large amount of credit based on a promising technology). I have a car on credit. I went to school on credit (which let me get this pretty good well-paying job).

You haven't suggested what you would replace our economy with after you tear down the banking system.
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2017 08:28 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
The people who write your propaganda videos

And exactly what part of the video was propaganda (untrue)?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2017 08:30 pm
@Glennn,
That's irrelevant. I am saying that it is meaningless. Whether it is true or not doesn't matter. In the part of the video that I could get through before I was bored, they seemed to miss the fact that most bonds are held by Americans... and they made generalizations about debt. I could quibble, but since I don't care about whether they are true or not... what's the point.

The economy that we have is working very well. They want the gold standard (which historically caused a bunch of problems). What are you proposing?

Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2017 08:51 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
That's irrelevant.

TRANSLATION: I can't disprove any of it, and so I'll simply dismiss it.
Quote:
most bonds are held by Americans

What percentage are held by foreign governments? The largest owner of U.S. debt is Social Security (16%), followed by other government entities (13%). Since the Social Security system is a government entity, how can the government own its own debt?
Quote:
What are you proposing?

Who has the power to create money. Why are you opposed to interest-free money?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2017 09:06 pm
@Glennn,
Quote:
TRANSLATION: I can't disprove any of it, and so I'll simply dismiss it.


I will except that translation. You have to tell me why I shouldn't dismiss it. We have an economy that works. Who cares?

Quote:
What percentage are held by foreign governments?


67.5% of bonds are held by Americans or American entity (including me, they are part of my retirement profile). We have an economy that works. Who cares?

Quote:
Who has the power to create money. Why are you opposed to interest-free money?


I am not opposed to intrerest-free money. I think the idea is a little wacky. But, if you want to give me interest-free money... I am all for it. Send me a PM and you can Paypal it to me Wink . I would be interested to know why you, or anyone else, would loan me money for my car without any interest.

I asked you what you propose to replace our economy with? You didn't answer. As far as who has the power to create money... we have an economy that works. Who cares?
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2017 09:29 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:

Quote:
Yet when Max withdrew that money to buy the car, the bank provided real money.

So Max went in and asked the bank to loan him twenty thousand dollars in cash so that he could carry that cash over to the car dealer? That's not how the process is done. But the bank has cash on hand to pay workers' when they cash their checks, and for other such things.

No, not typically. Normally, the bank provides Max with a check, he gives the check to the bank and the bank hands over the cash. Yes, the bank does keep cash on hand to honor their commitments, like that check that Max used to buy the car and other loans they make.

Do you believe that the bank made illicit money from Max in giving him a loan?
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2017 09:33 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
You have to tell me why I shouldn't dismiss it.

You understand the concept of exponentially increasing debt, don't you? If the government borrows money from the Federal Reserve because it is short of funds, and then has to pay interest on that loan which is ever increasing, where is that money going to come from and how is that situation resolved? So far, the government's solution is to raise he debt ceiling. How long do estimate that can go on?
Quote:
67.5% of bonds are held by Americans or American entity

Social security is a government agency. How can the government buy its own debt?
Quote:
I am not opposed to intrerest-free money. I think the idea is a little
wacky.

Okay, I'm going see if you know the answer to this question. Obviously you don't, or you wouldn't refer to such an idea as interest-free money as wacky. Who has the power to create money? I'll give you a hint. The answer can be found in the Constitution.
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2017 09:37 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
Do you believe that the bank made illicit money from Max in giving him a loan?

This is the perfect point at which you should give me your description of fractional reserve banking. If you give the correct answer, you will have answered your own question.
______________________________________________

Also, I claimed that the video below explains in no uncertain terms what the consequences of the modern money system are to people. Tell me which parts you have determined are false. Then we can do the research to get to the bottom of your confusion concerning the pitfalls of money multiplication.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23DNe0cJhcU
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2017 09:40 pm
@Glennn,
Are you talking about the coinage clause? You still haven't answere the most important question. We have a modern economy that functions well. Who cares?


Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2017 09:41 pm
@engineer,
I'm traveling for the holiday and will be gone for several days. But we will resume this discussion and expand it into the reason for the Federal Reserve.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2017 09:43 pm
@Glennn,
No one is going to watch your silly videos. I tried, they are boring and dogmatic... I imagine that I have more patience than most people.

You are the one making this pitch. You should be the one answering the questions. Instead you are demanding that everyone else answer your questions. That isn't the way that this works. You are selling this ideology, you have to answer the questions.


This thread is silly, and you aren't convincing anyone. The fact is we have a modern economy that works. So no one cares.



Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2017 09:43 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Are you talking about the coinage clause?

Describe that clause and what you imagine it means.
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2017 09:45 pm
@Glennn,
No thank you.

You are selling the ideology, you have to answer the questions. So far you haven't answered anyone.

We are all getting bored.
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2017 09:50 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
No one is going to watch your silly videos. I tried, they are boring and dogmatic

Then it's settled. You refuse to comment on any specific part of it that you know is incorrect. That's your prerogative. I understand.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2017 09:54 pm
@Glennn,
Quote:
Then it's settled. You refuse to comment on any specific part of it that you know is incorrect. That's your prerogative. I understand.


I told you the problem I have with your ideology. We have a perfectly good economic system that is working well for industry, supporting jobs, and financing progress. The inflation rate is low, the unemployment rate is low. Except for a few short periods, the economy has been this way since 1933. And, when the economy has trouble, the Fed has done a good job of stabilizing it. Our modern economy is more stable, more productive than any economic system in history. We are in a period of rapid innovation and progress with a greater standard of living than ever.

You are selling this ideology, but you are not telling why we should care. And you aren't providing an alternative to our modern economic system and banking system that would be better.

I have a new job and a new car... as do lots of Americans. So tell me why should I care?


0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2017 09:54 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
No thank you.

Then it's settled, you refuse to describe the coinage clause and what you imagine it means. That's your prerogative. I understand.

By the way, who has the power to create money?
0 Replies
 
mm25075
 
  4  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2017 10:21 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

No thank you.

You are selling the ideology, you have to answer the questions. So far you haven't answered anyone.

We are all getting bored.



This. Horse beaten to death.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2017 12:23 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
You are the one making this pitch. You should be the one answering the questions. Instead you are demanding that everyone else answer your questions. That isn't the way that this works. You are selling this ideology, you have to answer the questions.

Ideology? You understand the concept of exponentially increasing debt, don't you? If the government borrows money from the Federal Reserve because it is short of funds, and then has to pay that money back with interest that is ever increasing, where is that money going to come from and how is that situation resolved? You didn't answer that. So, why don't you do that right now?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2017 06:56 pm
@Glennn,
The economy is working. This has been going on for over 80 years now. As you pointed out, the government and the banking system keep creating new money. The risk of creating too much money is inflation. And yet, inflation has been under control for generations with a few periods of instability.

If your main goal is to decrease the debt, I would agree with you. You don't need to destroy the banking system to decrease the national debt. What you need to do is increase taxes, and cut spending. I tend to favor an increase of taxes.

 

 
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