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Bin Laden tapes

 
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 05:01 pm
Right, Bill W! What struck me, though, was when the tapes were first broadcast, some Arabists said they were puzzled that in some of what was said the accents were in the wrong place. Arabic, as everyone knows, has not a single but multiple variations by geographic area, "class." etc. etc. These guys were opining that "he just wouldn't say it that way." Imagine hearing a purported tape of Eleanor Roosevelt in which she says: "...Like.... you know... like..." or calling someone "real cute."
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 05:05 pm
Why do I not trust this administration?
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frolic
 
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Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 05:13 pm
A strange element in this tape-story

Al Jazeera broadcasted the bin Laden tape (referenced by Powell earlier that day), which they had originally denied possessing. Powell knew of the tape even before Al Jazeera did. Strange, isn't it?
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steissd
 
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Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 05:17 pm
Well, the very fact of the support of Saddam by bin Laden proves nothing: there is no evidence that Saddam sanctioned such a statement.
But, as far as I understand, there are another proofs of Al Qaeda's cooperation with the Iraqi regime in hands of the U.S. intelligence services.
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au1929
 
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Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 05:20 pm
frolicfrolic
Are you formulating a conspiracy theory. Shocked
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frolic
 
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Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 05:26 pm
steissd wrote:
But, as far as I understand, there are another proofs of Al Qaeda's cooperation with the Iraqi regime in hands of the U.S. intelligence services.


We are the people. Evidence that is not shown to the people is non-existing. Show us Saddam has WMD and is ready and capable of using them.
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BillW
 
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Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 05:30 pm
frolic, I fully believe that Saddam still has some WoMD - I don't need proof of their existence - would like to have proof of their destruction. Make Iraq an occupied country until then.

However, for this war to be ethical and moral - show proof (not old, phoney or plagarized) that Saddam is capable and willing to use them.

Once again - Iraq becomes an occupied country with sufficient Allied troops in place until - maybe 2025!
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wolf
 
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Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2003 08:35 pm
Here's a so-called conspiracy theory for you:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/11/29/1038386299712.html
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roadweighed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Mar, 2003 06:34 am
bin Laden
Today is the 21st of March, 2003. The towers fell about a year-and-a-half ago. What has happened in that time? Well, very early on in the investigation the public knew, or was fairly certain who was responsible for the act. Other than the collection of some scattered operatives, a military operation in Afghanistan, and a pending war in Iraq, what have we really accomplished in a year-and-a-half? This should've been resolved by now. The time frame and the results suggest several things.

So where is he? Nobody knows? It's still a mystery? If it is a mystery, then what does that say about the competence of our foreign intelligence? And if they do know where he is, then what does that say about our foreign intelligence, or our entire foreign policy for that matter? And even if we knew his exact whereabouts, could we do anything about it? Remember early on in the hunt, many believed him already dead, buried deep underneath some rubble? What happened to that opinion? I haven't heard that one lately. How come?

When a big murder happens here at home, anywhere on American turf, what's usually the protocol? Well normally a bureau gets in motion, and early on some suspects are detained, some leads are pursued, sometimes mistakes are made, but usually the positives outweigh those actions, and within a very short timeframe there is a conclusion. The media attaches itself to the event and most often the story doesn't have a chance to get old. And then the legal system steps in, and the rest is left to history. We're talking hours, days, and weeks here, not years. Who's best at investigating a crime?

So who's in charge of this investigation? Give the FBI a green light to act and it's of a very high probability that this whole matter would've been resolved by now. We have to ask ourselves:
"How bad do we really want this guy?"

We could speculate that even if we get him there's a dozen just like him ready to take his place, but that's not accurate. He's unique in many ways. He's already established himself to a high prominence, and he comes with an impressive resume, reasons not to linger on matters and to move quickly despite the social and religious fall-out. None of that should be a problem if he's sitting in an obscure cave somewhere, or if he's traveling desert roads by caravan, or is disguised as a Bedouin nomad, or is well insulated within the deep protections of armed personnel in Northern Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkmenistan, Iran, or Yemen. None of that should have a bearing on the willingness to move against him. The world is a big place, but given the technology of this era, and what intelligence should be doing, then the whole situation should've been concluded already. There should be no shortage of leads especially as they point to a location, or series of movements. So if he's not dead, where could he be given the time frame we're now sitting on? Again, the time frame suggests several things, if not incompetence in the field, then what? One thing it demonstrates, we're foreigners in a foreign land even though we've made it our business for decades to meddle in the affairs of the Middle East, but now are unable to solve a singular matter, something that many Americans are screaming for.

Suppose he's insulated in a country. Is it worth it? It's war isn't it? One of the things about the declaration of war, you follow that thing you're after until it's done. If that means crossing a border to get whatever you're after, if you know something is there, you retrieve or destroy it, then you move on until the whole mission is accomplished.

If that state says: "Get out of our country!"

Then you say: "What are you doing with these guys, why are they allowed to do what they do against us? We're at war, we've told the whole world that we are now at war, and if you're not careful, you will be too. Give them up, or we'll do whatever we choose to do. That's war brother. And by the way, we have the most sophisticated military on the planet; nobody's going to come to your aid if you make the wrong decision. If you can't help us, then we don't give a %#&$ about you. Well? You better be careful what you say. This isn't intimidation, it's just life or death."

If an established government does the wrong thing, you temporarily move within its borders until this matter is put to rest. It doesn't matter which one it is. If it's Arabia, then Arabia should have a major problem on its hands. If you know where he is, you communicate it to the world through the media, you make your move, and then you clean it all up later. Of course the risk is how much of the Muslim World will rally in response to the move, or how much of an effect it will have on the economic climate.

But do we really want him? How much are we willing to risk in order to put out part of a fire? Is it worth further destabilization of the Middle East? Or is it worth the possibility of a new shift in power with states moving away from neutrality? Is it worth gasoline doubling in price? How much power does this guy really have?

As Jerusalem is to Jews, Mecca and Medina are to Muslims. Arabia is the heart of Islam. It's not Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, nor Egypt. It's much more, and even though its oil reserves are vast, its wealth is only a small part of its power and influence over the rest of the Arab World. Remember something, America has some type of modified alliance with this country. Not only does Saudi Arabia have significant tangible wealth that much of the mechanized world is dependent upon, but it's also a holy land to a large percentage of the global population. And now, a rogue member from one of its royal families has declared war against the West. Bin Laden is Arabian. How the established government there views him isn't important, if the money is being traced to Arabia, then we have a big problem. Until the matter of enabling al-Qaida is resolved by whatever means, this so-called alliance will continue to be a sham with both sides playing a two-faced game. The roots of destruction on this one originally comes from palatial realms. We can try to freeze all of the cash we want. That doesn't address the problem, nor does it stop pumps from pumping. And it doesn't slow down the religious momentum building up in the Middle East.

Essentially, what Bin Laden is saying is this:

Okay Islam, your rest is over. It's time to get at it again with the Western World. You have a duty to protect your faith; we need to drive out those people who don't belong in our backyard. We'll take any measure available to do so. Are you with us or not?

Not only is he well funded, but the Muslim media gives him access to much of the Arab World. But again, we don't know where he is, right? Even if we did know, what could we do about it, especially if he is operating in a place that we can't enter, for whatever reason? Even if he's only the leader of a small faction that operates within the Muslim community, if he's able to move freely past borders without impediment, then what's really happening?

We're at war. Correct? War is the ultimate game. And It's On, whether any of us want to admit it or not. And in war, sides take it to the limit in order to crush eminent dangers, unless they're not really at war. And if not, then they shouldn't be using the language of war. That's playing politics, and buffaloing the people.

If we have to disrespect the borders of a so-called ally in order to begin the hunt of big game, then we should get on with it. If the social ramifications are too great, then we shouldn't displace that sentiment and become unbalanced with other unrelated endeavors elsewhere in order to make ourselves feel better, to satisfy a hunger, even if it is unresolved business. Take care of the big game before it gets away from us entirely. Did Afghanistan yield anything? Will Iraq?

Our foreign policy is a joke, at some point we have to admit it. That in no way refers to the behavior of the United Nations, rather it has everything to do with how we've come to be defined by the global community, our consumptions, our business behavior, and our relationships with respect to aiding regimes and supplying them arms. We went for Afghanistan. Iraq looks to be next. After that, who knows? But unless it's solving The Problem, all of it might be a waste of time, energy, and most of all focus.

There's a monster on the horizon.
His mission is to be the next Caliph.
The time frame suggests a stalemate.

D.A. Pino, editor of
The Gutters of California
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