Jehovah Witness

@newmoonnewmoon,

I have nothing against a jehovah witnes i enjoy the decent conversation.

I say relieved i am no jehovah witness for how i personally do not like to bother anyone. I love their belief and confidence a jw has within themself for how theyve the belief they can help people to Christ by doing as they do. Ive not the right confidence for how i do not like to disappoint or bother. And i am sure they are quite inspiration.

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@ehBeth,

True, when I lived in Florida those sons a bitches would come knocking on the door at 8am, and even when you threatened to turn the hose on them they would still come back! Razz

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@newmoonnewmoon,

newmoonnewmoon wrote:

I have nothing against a jehovah witnes i enjoy the decent conversation.

Never had a decent conversation with one. They're all pretty thick, and when you ask them something they can't answer they just recite scripture.

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I agree with Izzy - JW learn certain questions which you are supposed to answer with yes and then they start with the scripture and often not the original text.
They know next to nothing about theology.

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@newmoonnewmoon,

Quote:

A Jehovah Witness basically strives to live by the teachings of the bible

They are fairly Fundamentalist in that hey follow the Old Testament but they dont really follow the New Testament much. When a religion is developed in the mind of one individual , as was the Witnesses, it usually contains quite a bit of "alternative beliefs" from some mainstream religions. Think about The Latter Day Saints , or theAmish. We can trace each of these to one person who also installed some "unique" beliefs into their own theology.

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@centrox,

?!!!!

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

centrox wrote:
maxdancona wrote:
Going door to door to tell people about Jesus is in the Bible.

Is trespassing on private property in the Bible?

Not only in the Bible, it is also in the Bill of Rights.

In Britain, where every man's house (and front yard) is his castle, we have the law of trespass.

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@saab,

I generally found them to be smug, judgemental, and somewhat sad for any religion. Most jews and Christian cults Im familiar with are more happy bunches who love to celebrate holidays with family. Witnesses seem to place a chip on their shoulder when you respectfully disagree with em.
I always wonder why their worship houses dont have any windows ?.

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One of the teachings of JWs is that when a person decides to exit their group/church, they are to be shunned. No contact with the former member at all, not even by family. Those who exit are apparently seen as being in league with the Antichrist (I have no idea what an Antichrist is).

They also abhor homosexuality, believe it to be brought on by demonic possession. It's said that many gays whom are JWs, stay silent. It my seem strange to do that, but, their choices become limited if they want to maintain contact with their family. If they leave, they are shunned and if they admit being gay they are shunned (likely after being tossed out of the group).

I also recall from school, a girl who was a JW, she was not allowed to say the Pledge of Allegiance (to the flag).

And then of course there is their pamphlet/ newsletter thing which they try pushing at people on trains or on street corners and elsewhere. The Watchtower . They don't usually seem to comprehend the word No.

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My wife's aunt is a JW and she is one of the sweetest and most humble people I know. My mother-in-law employed a JW to clean her house because she felt they were thoroughly honest. When she came down with dementia we hired the house-keeper to care for her, along with her family members and friends who were also JWs. These women were the closest things to saints that I have ever met. They took expert and loving care of her, including tasks I would never take on (associated with excretion) without any complaint what-so-ever.

Because of her condition, my mother-in-law was always losing things, including a very expensive diamond ring. We figured it might eventually show up but was probably lost forever. Maria, the primary caretaker, however, did find it while cleaning where most cleaners will not bother with and she immediately called my wife. She could have easily kept the ring and we would never have known.

If not for them my mother-in-law would not have been able to live out the last six years of her life in her own home. Eventually her needs exceeded her caretakers' capabilities and we had to move her to a facility. She passed on in less than six months.

All of these wonderful women attended her wake and funeral and cried as much as any family member.

Never once did they attempt to preach to us. Never.

Once a month a small elderly black woman comes to my home with copies of The Watchtower. She is nervous but sweet and has never tried to preach to me. I will always spend as much time with her as she cares to spend at my doorstep.

In a world where so few people have principles and even less live by them, JWs stand out above most, and to begrudge any of them a few minutes at your door is the definition of a curmudgeon.

You don't have to agree with these folks to treat them as fellow human beings.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Dja think that the cleaning ladies were just taking care of their own??

Quote:

to begrudge any of them a few minutes at your door is the definition of a curmudgeon.

Apparently They(and you), do not understand our First Amendment rights of "free expression". Good for them, please just dont bother me.

Quote:

You don't have to agree with these folks to treat them as fellow human beings

I dont think that point was ever even a decimal focal point of this thread. I find that Its the JW's that dont give a rats ass about how annoying they can be. Most of us usually just let theJW's be, why dont they do likewise?? (Hint:do they keep score of their possible converts??).
Youve NEVER been accosted or detained by them?? (especially when theyre in their soul hunting parties?). You been living on Elsmere Island ?? (Thats a JW -free zone)

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@Sturgis,

Quote:

I also recall from school, a girl who was a JW, she was not allowed to say the Pledge of Allegiance (to the flag).

Really, Sturgis? "Not allowed" is a strange term to use for someone who doesn't say the pledge of alliegence.

When I was in high school, I chose to not say the pledge of allegiance. I had a Quaker Background, not taking oaths is part of Quaker beliefs and not standing for the pledge has a history in Quakerism.

It wasn't the Quakers who shunned me (they didn't insist either way). The normal, non-religious people had a problem with someone who sat quietly during the pledge. I was not only "shunned" by the non-religious... I was sent to the principal's office and threatened with suspension.

My father supported me, and there was already a Constitutional precedent. When the principal admitted he had to back down... it was one best lessons from my high school education.

I am no longer religious, but I believe that there is a place for religious expression and religious communities in modern culture.

I don't think people here should be shunning JWs.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

When I was in high school, I chose to not say the pledge of allegiance. I had a Quaker Background, not taking oaths is part of Quaker beliefs and not standing for the pledge has a history in Quakerism.

In Britain, you can choose not to take an oath if your beliefs prevent you, for example before giving evidence in a court of law, or when being awarded citizenship. I had a friend who acted as a court usher who was responsible for administering the oath to witnesses, and she had a Chinese lady who wanted to smash a saucer or plate. The judge sent her to the court cafeteria to fetch a plate, wrapped in a napkin, which was duly smashed. There is now a plate alongside the various holy books in the ushers' room.

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@centrox,

We had a Supreme Court case in 1943 that granted the right to sit down for the Pledge of Allegiance

Quote:

In the 1930s, the government of Nazi Germany began arresting thousands of Jehovah's Witnesses who refused to salute the Nazi flag and sent them to concentration camps. In the United States, Jehovah's Witness national leaders advocated demonstrating solidarity with German Jehovah's Witnesses by refusing to participate in the daily flag salutes that had become compulsory in American schools. The Witnesses taught and still teach that the obligation imposed by the law of God is superior to that of laws enacted by temporal government.

It was a significant court victory won by Jehovah's Witnesses, whose religion forbade them from saluting or pledging to symbols, including symbols of political institutions. However, the Court did not address the effect the compelled salutation and recital ruling had upon their particular religious beliefs but instead ruled that the state did not have the power to compel speech in that manner for anyone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette

.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Sturgis wrote:
I also recall...not allowed to say The Pledge of Allegiance

Really, Sturgis? "Not allowed" is a strange term to use...

I was 11 years old, it was during the rehearsals for 6th grade graduation. It was noticed the one girl wasn't taking part in that section of the rehearsals. Somebody asked and she said she wasn't allowed because of her religion, which was Jehovah's Witness.

I don't remember any of the students in our class being bothered by it, it was more a matter of wondering why. And, as far as I know/knew, none of the students in the other 6th grade classes cared much about it either. We certainly didn't shun her for it. No idea where you were raised, but, ask finished off the 6th grade I was living in New York City.

No recollection of what people did in high school, I was in a daze much of the time and shuffled through 4 different schools (5 if I include those 3 months in Brooklyn at John Jay).

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...I believe there is a place for religious expression and religious communities in modern culture.

Sounds good to me. I've no objections to people believing what the want, just don't force it on others.

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I don't think people here should be shunning JWs.

If they're on the board here, I'm not shunning them. If I planned on that route, I'd not have entered this topic. Even when they have arrived at my home, I haven't shunned them. I smoked excessively and stood in the doorway, but talked with them for a good half hour.

My bottom line belief is full freedom in religion and other areas of life, just as long as nobody is being forced into something and nobody is getting hurt. With many religions, people get hurt for not conforming, In the case of JWs, as is true in many religions, homosexuality is an offense and will prevent membership or full church involvement. That was one of my beefs with the Methodists. I say was, because some sections have opened up to full inclusion - including on having gays as ministers. Others seem to still be holding on to the old traditions. (no dancing, no card playing, no gambling of any kind).

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@farmerman,

The caretakers were taking care of a woman they came to love. I know what happened so your cynical take on it is irrelevant.

Obviously you're not required to listen to them or to open your door when they come calling, and if you seriously believe they are violating the 1st Amendment, call the police on them.

I've been "accosted" by people trying to preach to me, but they have never been JW's, and I obviously don't live in a JW free zone because I just recounted my experience with an old woman who visits every month.

But I'm sure your life is much busier than mine and your mind more occupied with critically important thoughts so I understand why you can't afford to spend a few minutes with someone coming to your door.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

But I'm sure your life is much busier than mine and your mind more occupied with critically important thoughts so I understand why you can't afford to spend a few minutes with someone coming to your door

And Im the one who is being cynical eh?.(methinks youre a bit too touchy lately), All my points were relevant and backed by Constitutional "approbation" and not any violation of Amendment 1. The "violation of the free expression" clause of the Bill of Rights i not a criminal violation (Im sure you were, once aqain, trying to be a wise ass) so calling a cop would be a waste of his time . I suppose, if Im botherd enough I could retain counsel and start a civil suit but I just want to be left alone by all these Babble thumpers, JW's, Mormon;s, and Beachy Amish.

Im certainly glad that your(and your relative's) experience with JW's was pleasurable. All I can say is just keep your wits about you lest you become somniferously overcome by their perfidy.

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