Atheists are into acquired intelligence deficiency syndrome.

I was actually trying to explicitly echo your point and join with you.

You are pedantic aren't you?

Thank you anyway.

Atheists have 1000's of years of human misery and priestly excesses to bolster their disbelief. What have you to provide for your belief?

I would be very happy if there were a benevolent god and an afterlife that makes sense. It would make life so pleasant in my declining (golden) years.

Do you think so? I wasn't consciously trying to be. I have been accused of it.

Then give in edgar, how can it hurt?

Have you really, throughout your whole life, been absolutely true to all of your beliefs? If so you are a rarity among humanity.

I have doubts about God's existence and I really can't imagine that all atheist never have doubts either.

On your deathbed your beliefs will be tested far more than they are now. If, for no other reason than fear you accept God, what is the import? You certainly won't be the first atheist to give in. You won't have made your life meaningless in any way. There is nothing particularly noble about being an atheist. You will either be wrong or right. If you're wrong in your submission you won't spend eternity flogging yourself for giving in, but if you are right, you surely won't find the glory of God diminished because you only accepted it out of fear.

My point here is that belief in God or disbelief in God should not be a matter of pride or honor.

I don't accept that a failure to believe in God (or any of his other incarnations) is going to doom anyone to hell. That, in my opinion, is a ridiculous notion, so if you retain your atheism until your death, and I am right, you will pass into whatever God has in store for us. He's not going to say. "Edgar you didn't believe in me so you must burn for all eternity."

Believing for many gives comfort and really what is wrong with that? Life very often sucks so why should we try to deprive people of comfort? If you don't believe, fine and dandy but don't try and deprive anyone of what you may consider to be false comfort. If you are right you won't be in a position to crow about how you were right and if they are right they will welcome you into what awaits us.

Doubts about what? Would you expect me to doubt that I don't believe the silly story of the god-botherers? The attempt to allege an equivalence between those who believe, and those who don't is among the most feeble advanced by the god-botherers. There is an hilarious absurdity in attempting to suggest that belief and lack of belief are more or less the same. It has been, in fact, a review of religious belief systems which has lead me not to believe. Where would you suggest that one would go from there?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlueurKbmIQ&list=RDVlueurKbmIQ#t=0

How wonderful is your certainty. Enjoy it.

Atheists have thousands of years of human misery, priestly excesses, and happiness and progress that don't involve belief in a god at all. A god is irrelevant in all of this.

Entirely irrelevant as to whether or not God exists.

In regard to an atheist's belief, which is what this thread is about, after all, what is irrelevant is the possibility of God's existence since it's neither here nor there.

My certainty, you snide s.o.b., is that I know what I do and don't believe. Either you're not bright enough to take that on-board, or you refuse to acknowledge that that attitude implies no burden of proof.

and you know this how, exactly? Unless you are a mind reader or have intimate knowledge of eb's life (both past and present), you cannot assert this with empirical certainty.


Who says he will? Too, what about the God-fearing (and loving) Christians and other religious group members/followers, who, in their last moments renounce a belief in God or multiple Gods? Persons who after a life filled with pains and sufferings, decide there's no way there could be a divine presence out there?

Other parts of your post, I rather much agree with...at least in parts.

He's arguing from nothing, so he has to make outrageous claims to stake out a spot in the argument.

No you're right, I don't know this for certain, and with edgar it may not at all be the case. I should have used "may" rather than "will."

Fear of death and what may or may not come next challenges the beliefs of many dying people though.

I'm not predicting he will give in. I've really no idea.

He made a comment that he might feel comfort in his old age if he believed and so I invited him to do so, to "give in" and added that if he did, he wouldn't be the first atheist to do so. Probably could have worded it better, but (despite what he believes) my intention was not to criticize his atheism or suggest it is a foolish belief that he will drop like a hot potato when he's near death. I think I've been clear throughout prior posts in this thread that I don't think it is right to denigrate someone's belief in God or in his absence from the Universe. And it certainly wasn't my attempt to convert edgar, just to suggest to him that the comfort he might find in believing is not a small thing and that it's my opinion and belief that doing so won't dishonor him or make a difference as to what happens when he dies.

There may be believers who deny God on their deathbeds. I don't know of any, but that's not to say they don't exist. If they do, I think it's quite sad, because it must take a great deal of suffering to renounce God, however if they do so out of a moment of perceived clarity that causes them to question everything they've believed, that's perfectly fine and I would even go so far as to say I'd be glad for them. Experiencing such a moment just before you die (regardless of its cause or validity) must be comforting. I would love for everyone to be in comfort when they die. I pray every night that God grant those for whom death is imminent, serenity and comfort. I don't think he's answered my prayers, but it can't hurt to ask.

I'm not a Christian or a member of any specific faith. I've stated this enough times in this forum that it should be clear that when I speak about God, I am speaking about my personal beliefs, but if it's not, there it is now for the record.

I don't believe that whether or not you are a member of the club of Believers will have any affect on what happens when you die. I don't know what will happen when I die, but if death is the final end of sentience, I'm sure I won't be hanging out in the void cursing myself for being a fool. I genuinely believe in God and that there will be some experience after death. I have notions of what it might be based on my belief in the nature of God, but it's nothing like the Christian concept that involves judgment and punishment or reward based on how you acted on earth or what historical figure you believe is your savior (or for that matter The Prophet).

My father was a lifelong atheist who converted upon recognition of his having an inoperable brain tumor that was, without doubt, going to kill him. I think it was fear not clarity that prompted it, but if it provided him with a measure of comfort and serenity during the days he faced his imminent end, what's wrong with that?

I truly don't care whether someone doesn't believe in the existence of God. My brother doesn't and I love him very much. I don't, in the slightest, feel compelled to convert him to my belief because it will somehow save him. I might at some point in our lives encourage him to believe if he indicates, as edgar did, that it would provide him with comfort, but otherwise why should I care since I don't think the divine creator of all things shares our petty human emotions, and doesn't care if you acknowledge him or not. Most importantly though, my brother respects my belief and while we have discussed the subject on many occasions, he has never resorted to arguments about stupidity and silly superstition.

I don't presume to know the mind of God (that comes when you die) and in this life I don't think anyone possibly can. The beliefs I've expressed here are based on my very limited, human attempts to make some sense of my belief in a divine creator. I'm likely to be way off the mark in any number of way, but I believe "I" will see and that is very exciting.

Dear Finn, you say:
"I'm not a Christian or a member of any specific faith. I've stated this enough times in this forum that it should be clear that when I speak about God, I am speaking about my personal beliefs, but if it's not, there it is now for the record."

You know, Finn, I see you and I we have kindred heart and mind.

For myself God in concept is first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.

And for religion my option is to keep to my born in faith, i.e. Christianism, but in my very own do it yourself brand.

Let us talk together on how we each one got to know that God exists.

Hope to read your reply to this post from me.

And the rest of you guys here, you are welcome to join in.

We all have our very own do-it-yourself brand of living and believing. I'm happy with mine. Are you happy with yours?

Am I happy with my religion?

Yes, definitely!

You see, all conscious life like with us humans is a drama, so also religion is a part of the drama man plays, so also marriage and family is a drama.

Now, I act out the drama which in my case it is a happy one; like I enjoy part of the drama of life, a small part though, is to engage fellow rational folks in exchange of views in a web forum.

Every facet of my life as drama, I am happy with it, like in the facet of my religion.

Can you accept that others are as happy with their beliefs as you are with yours?