Why is there something and not nothing?

Reply Wed 12 Apr, 2017 04:03 pm
dalehileman wrote:

So, why is there God?
Blue, it's just a name we can attach to She/He/It if we like

So, why is there She/He/It, then?
cicerone imposter
Reply Wed 12 Apr, 2017 04:15 pm
Because man created those "she/he/it." Don't forget all them animals that were worshipped.
0 Replies
Reply Wed 12 Apr, 2017 05:33 pm
So, why is there She/He/It, then?
Dunno Frab. As I said, certain of us think there is a Universe because there has to be
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Alan McDougall
Reply Fri 14 Apr, 2017 12:46 am
@Alan McDougall,

The first, most basic idea of that nothing is just empty space with nothing in it not to be nothing. in our universe, even a dark, empty void of space, absent of all particles, is still something

Is that really nothing?" no space, no time. but what about physical laws, what about mathematical entities?

Imagine the surface of a ball. it's a finite space but with no boundary Then imagine it shrinking down to a point." that would create a closed space-time with zero radius.

With nothing, I mean the un-existence of everything. No people, no earth, no milky way, no universe, no laws of nature, no space, no time a total non-existence of everything. A mind-boggling, brain-, brain-numbing and brain- twisting overwhelming concept, terrifying, frightening, too awful to contemplate and impossible think about, without going insane and totally beyond understanding of any human genius.

Making a mathematical model of nothing is actually easy. (Take an empty set, with no operations on it, and nothing else.) Nevertheless, one thing we can be sure of: this nothing is not correct: we do not have “nothing”, but definite and absolutely do indeed have ‘something’.

If you ponder contemplate too long about nothingness, you could go insane, because in my opinion it is concept beyond human comprehension

What about consciousness? all the things that are non-spatial and non-temporal."

Was this something always there? We can trace the history of the universe back to the first instant after the big bang, when the cosmos was unimaginably hot and dense and expanding rapidly. but here the laws of physics break down, and with them our ability to reconstruct what came before Indeed, if its even proper to speak of a “before.” this space of the universe (though it is certainly misleading to call it a “space”)

Is the second kind of nothing the complete lack of space and time and quantum fields. the absence not just of matter and energy, but of the conditions necessary for being.?

Many physicists search for the most elementary laws of physics, and believe that a law is more likely to be true, when it is simpler, more elementary. Some think that at some moment, humans will understand how the Universe and everything works, and, even more, that we find out why the Universe is necessarily as it is. I cannot believe that, indeed, I believe humans cannot ever give a satisfactory or final answer to this ultimate of all questions. Why is there something instead of nothing?

This shows that the simplest model is not always the correct one. The universe is almost infinitely complex and to me this points to the simple logic that it is the creation by an infinite, intelligent power. Nothing is the very most basic of all concepts and if there were nothing, there would be no creator, of course.

Some people may argue that the universe was created in the Big Bang ( but whom and what pressed the button of the big bang in the first place, so to speak?) , and that positive matter and positive energy are actually negated by the simultaneous creation of negative matter and negative energy. However, this doesn't answer the other question, where do matter, energy and laws of physics then come from in the first place?

Does this question have an answer? If something exists because it either was a modification of something or else, something or somebody else created it, then what caused that to exist? It seems that our logic is unable to deal with the question; indeed, I think the question shows there is a limit to our understanding of things by the very best minds of the human race. There are simply mysteries out there that will never ever be solved by mere mortal man.

You see the universe has a Goldie locks condition about it, i.e., it cannot be too hot, or too cold etc, etc, etc, but it has to be just absolutely correct, precise and right or life would not have come into existence and we would not be around to contemplate, debate or dialog on this ultimate enigma. We would not exist. Life hangs on and depends on this knife- edge of harmonies conditions that have to be sustained over countless billions of years, for us to have come into existence and continue to exist. Makes one think, does it not?

Why do we have a Universe? My answer is that God created the Universe. However, then, one can ask, who/what created God? I believe God was not created and this ‘fact’ is beyond our understanding and must be accepted on faith. God is far and beyond our understanding, everlasting, without beginning or end, eternal and ever -existing, but was (and is, and will be) always existed.

He/she is indeed the very author of all existence. Indeed, God is so mighty, Omni-All that he/she exists, forever, far above our reasoning and above the ultimate reaches of our logic. Something we and all the vain puffed up scientist, philosophers, etc, will just have to accept in time,

We will, at the end of the day have to, relent and acknowledge that somewhere out there is a awesome, colossal, mighty, great infinite intelligence that in comparison that we are as a microbe is to a human or perhaps horrors even much further remote, from the Omni-all power we call God. It will indeed be a most humbling experience for us to finally realize and acknowledge, that there are things and mysteries that will; remain forever, absolutely, totally beyond human comprehension understand and reside eternally in the mind of our creator God.

It is a fact the finite can simply never ever comprehend the mind of the infinite; this should be logic to any fool.
Reply Fri 14 Apr, 2017 11:19 am
@Alan McDougall,
nothingness... is concept beyond human comprehension
Your posting is indeed well put as many think of nothingness as empty space whereas, as you point out, space is not nothing

...leaving of course the q, why must there be anything atall, including space. I had proposed an answer above but can't elaborate upon it 'cause it's so vacuous

the first instant after the big bang,,,.... but here the laws of physics break down
Exactly, Doug. In some way, the beginning might have been some form of 'nothingness' but it might be concluded that this condition can't last 'cause "nothin' "is infinitely instable. Sounds like nonsense, but then, as you said so admirably....

Interestin' to note, Mac, that there's no such word

either was a modification ... or else...created it, then what caused that to exist?
Precisely. Then we hafta assume it was always there--in one form or another--

then, one can ask, who/what created God?
That's the big q isn't it Al. The pantheist answers, ' 'cause He/She/It was always there,' but nobody listens to us or cares

God is far and beyond our understanding,
Not quite, Mac. We apodicticals maintain it's pretty obvious that the prop can easily be proven by a demo that the slightest change in a single constant, any single one of 'em, would cause a contradiction or paradox somewhere else. In other words, She/He/It's always been there and it's the way it is because that's the way things hafta be

Mac, Eng, Fil, Doug, help me rephrase that in more common language before we're attacked again by the TAT

Thank you Doug for your most excellent posting, you should make it an OP if the silly a2k software would let you; the same digital dumbness that has just cut me off so I can't add anything to my response, for which I suppose you and others actually might be grateful....

So if any further typos, not my fault....

Oh and Mgmt, please please please quit cutting off the bottom of my edit; or at least don't make it jump up and down like that--pleaser, please, fellas....
Reply Fri 14 Apr, 2017 11:50 am
It is a fact the finite can simply never ever comprehend the mind of the infinite; this should be logic to any fool.
Well said indeed. However this fool adds somewhat sheepishly, you and me have tried valiantly, might even have contributed

Makes one think, does it not?
Oh hell yeah Gall, it sure does. You're the best
Reply Fri 14 Apr, 2017 05:19 pm
There is a lot of confusion about the word "eternal". It has commonly come to mean "endless time," but it's true meaning is "outside the field of time". Joseph Campbell resurrected an obsolete term, "eviternal" which does mean "endless time".
Reply Fri 14 Apr, 2017 05:25 pm
Thank you Col, it's not everyday...
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Reply Fri 14 Apr, 2017 06:38 pm

God and the universe is the same?
That's what I been tryin' to tellum now for some 18 years

We can't expect to change the minds of the crusty old intellectuals around here, but there are young people listening here who aren't saying anything, and we may very well be influencing them.
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Alan McDougall
Reply Sat 15 Apr, 2017 05:47 pm
InfraBlue wrote:

So, why is there God?

Only God can answer that question!
Reply Sun 16 Apr, 2017 02:39 pm
@Alan McDougall,
He probably wouldn't know, either.
Reply Sat 18 Sep, 2021 03:54 pm
On the One and Only Existence


In this lost haunt on the Orion arm
Of the galaxy, safe from the core’s harm,
The philosophers meet in the forum,
As sleuth-hounds unweaving the Cosmic yarn.

We search for the Start of the Universe,
The End, the Before, the After, the Kinds,
The Measures, and All That Lies Between:
The Music of the Spheres’ Magnificat.

We follow every single avenue,
Whether it’s brightly lit or a dark alley,
Exploring one-ways, no-ways, and dead-ends,
Until cornered where the Truth is hiding.

Since we all became of this universe,
Should we not ask who we are, whence we came?
Insight clefts night’s skirt with its radiance—
The Theory of Everything shines through!

We are ever in touch with the unknown,
For that’s ever the reach of science shown.
Reality is grasped by focusing
On what interacts with what and the means.

There is a realm of happenings, not things,
For ‘things’ don’t remain the same on time’s wings.
What remains through time are processes—
Relations between different systems.

An Eternal Basis has to be so,
For a lack of anything cannot sow,
Forcing there to be something permanent,
As partless, from which the particles grow.

Consider quantum fields of waves atop
One another: waves are continuous,
And so qualify as Fundamental;
Quantized lumps are particles, then more.

Note that there is no other absolute:
Newton’s fixed space and time got Einstein’s boot;
Particle spigots making fields are mute;
Classic fields have no fundamental loot.

There’s a lightness of elemental being
Since any more would have to be of parts,
And thus go beyond the fundamental arts.
The puffs of vacuum energy are small.

On the Forced Defaults for the Only Existence

There can only be the one Existence,
Forced, with no option for it not to be,
Which is no mystery because the ‘Nil’
Cannot be, even as spacers within.

There is neither ‘Full’ nor ‘Null’,
But a lightness of being near ‘Zero’,
As that’s what the universe amounts to,
Nor ‘Nil’s kin as ‘Still’, since there’s constant change.

This must-be partless Existence Eterne
Can’t end, so it must remain as itself,
Transmuting into multiplicity
Of the temporary as ‘elementaries’.

Since Existence has to be, of not ‘null’,
‘Supernatural Magic’ isn’t required;
So, there’s only the natural as the base;
One degree of freedom is its forced default.

Motion is a must, or naught could happen;
It can’t have parts, so it’s continuous;
Since no end, it can return to itself.
There can’t be anything else but it.

It is everywhere, with no gaps of ‘zilch’,
Waving, as that’s ubiquitous in nature;
Rearranging to the elementary
Particles at stable rungs of quanta.

Only quantum fields fit the criteria;
‘Particles as spigots’ failed to flow,
Newton’s ‘Space’ and ‘Time’ disappeared via
Einstein’s relativity special and general.

Quantum field points that just spring up and down
Form the field’s waves by dragging on others.
These sums of harmonic oscillations
Force the fixed quanta energy levels.

So the wave estimate proved to be right;
An electron/photon goes through both slits
Because it is a spread out field quantum.
Quantum jumps are due no wave fractionals.

The universe is a large quantum field,
For the 24 quantum fields interact,
This containing the whole of physics.
There’s no ‘God’s’ eye view; anything happens.

The anything in the massive universe
Is a lot of needed extravagant junk,
Since on Earth the right conditions obtained,
Our planet being where and what it has to be.

Cosmic and biological evolution were forced,
Stars collecting the elementaries,
Producing all the atomic elements
That went on to molecules, cells, and more.

All this took 13.75 billion years,
Since, again, there were no hoodoo shortcuts.
Life and consciousness emerged, no ‘Mojo’—
Since before that time on Earth there was none!

We, too, are forced to exist.

Our planet is very good at promoting life,
But it is much better at extinguishing it.
Of the billions upon billions of organic things,
99.99% are no longer around here living.

Of all extinctions, the Permian was the worst.
245 million years ago, for 95% of species perished,
Suddenly disappearing from the fossil recording.
Life had almost come to a total obliterationing.

“Hurray,” said the shrew; now I can evolve!

‘You’ were once a lucky shrew, darting all about,
But then attached to a favorable evolutionary line…
Every single one of your forbears on both sides
Being attractive enough to locate a loving mate,
And they fortunately had the good health to celebrate!

Our blind-fated path was the further paved
When disasters finished most of the species.
Far from a feature of Intelligent Design,
It opened up the space that was needed.

The Downfall of ‘Beyond’ and ‘Extra’

‘Magic’ has fallen by the wayside, it
As trancendence an intangible writ,
Unable to be distinct from matter,
Having to talk/walk the talk/walk of it.

An extra distinct realm isn’t needed,
As ‘intangible’, ‘ineffable’, etc.,
For it only begs the question—a shock!—
And as separate couldn’t have effect.

The ‘immaterial’ and ‘nonphysical’
Haven’t shown anything at all to date,
Plus, all the more they’d have to be explained;
The ‘metaphysical’ search has to fail.

Five billion years ago there was no life
Or consciousness, and now they are both here,
Thus, they emerged, evolving during that time;
So, there’s no need for their ‘metaphysical’.

Where’s the esoteric among atoms?
What inside their doings would be else wise?
Do molecules swirl into spooky states?
What their secret patterns hidden away?

The ‘God’ idea has fallen from its throne;
Forever quantum fields’ excitations’
Elementary quanta roll on those fields
That are everywhere and remain intact.


The quantum fields’ unity is the Whole,
Being ever, exhausting Reality,
Unbreakable and Unmakeable,
As partless and continuous monads.

All that emerges is still the fields at heart,
Though secondary and temporary,
Arising and at some time returning;
The quantum fields are Indivisible.

Quantum fields are the fundamental strokes
Whose excitations at harmonics cloak
The quanta with the stability
To persist and thus obtain mobility.

The elementary particles beget,
As letters of the Cosmic alphabet,
And combine in words to write the story
Of the stars, atoms, cells, and life’s glory.

Why Something?

Quantum states melt via uncertainty,
And this means that no quantum property
Can e’er be zero—a precise amount,
And so it is that motion can ne’er cease.

The Something

The quantum field is the bridge between ‘Nil’
And basic matter, and can ne’er be still;
Thus the ‘vacuum’ is the quietest field—
The closest approach to ‘Nothing’ that can be.

No ‘Null’ nor Matter Full

‘Nothing’ had no chance to be the hero,
Plus QM scrubs the idea of zero
Out of the physical world of being;
‘Zilch’ ne’er sleeps, but is e’er up to something.

A Mere Blip

But for the small quantum uncertainty,
The Cosmos sums to naught, its lunch being free:
No net electric charge; a weightless brick;
Minus-potential = plus-kinetic.

Oh, those imaginings of what can’t be!
Such as Nought, Stillness, and the Block’s decree,
As well as Apart, Beginning, and End,
The Unfixed Will, Blame, Fame, and Theity.
Reply Sat 18 Sep, 2021 05:21 pm
there's qite a lot of nothing in between and around all the something.
Reply Sat 18 Sep, 2021 05:56 pm
There ain't no nothing no way no how!
Reply Sat 18 Sep, 2021 09:14 pm
have you checked between your ears?
0 Replies

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