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Is a comma needed in the sentence?

 
 
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2016 02:33 am
Thankfully the weather let up and the children were able to enjoy an outdoor puppet show based on the poem “The Giving Tree”. (I posted this earlier and was told that a comma after poem is not necessary.)

I would like to know whether it is necessary to insert a comma after poem in the sentence below. Or is this sentence of similar structure as the above sentence and a comma is not needed?

The teacher opened the book and selected a poem. The poem, "The Giving Tree", was later adapted as a puppet show.

Thanks.
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Type: Question • Score: 2 • Views: 446 • Replies: 13
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tanguatlay
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2016 06:44 am
@tanguatlay,
Please help.
0 Replies
 
dupre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2016 10:03 am
@tanguatlay,
Yes, you would need the comma before and after the title of the poem in this sentence because the title is being used as an appositive and should be set off by commas. For the Chicago Manual of Style and for APA style the second comma would not go outside of the quotation mark, but rather inside the quotation mark like this:

The poem, "The Giving Tree," was later adapted as a puppet show.

Here's another example of an appositive:

A member of a Web site which helps people find answers to their questions, Able2know.org, replied to my post.

Hope that helps.
0 Replies
 
dupre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2016 10:05 am
Also, according the the Chicago Manual of Style and APA, the period at the end of your first sentence should be inside the last quotation mark.
0 Replies
 
dupre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2016 10:52 am
Also, the title should be in italics, not quotation marks, because it is considered a picture book and not a poem.

tanguatlay
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2016 11:11 am
@dupre,
Thanks, dupre.

To me, both my sentences appear to need a comma after "poem". How can I tell that the first sentence doesn't need a comma but the second needs one?

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dupre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2016 11:37 am
@tanguatlay,
Well, in reading this more carefully, I think either would work depending on the subtlety of meaning and context:

I read "poem" in the first sentence as a noun used as an adjective modifying the title--truth is, the title should be in italics and the word should be "book," but that's another matter.

The second sentence could also have "poem" as a noun modifying the title and not need the commas at all.

It's a subtle difference. With the commas, the title is an appositive restating and further clarifying the subject of the sentence "poem." Without the commas, "The Giving Tree" becomes the subject of the verb "was," and "poem" becomes a noun modifying the title (which should be book with the title in italics, not quotation marks).

And now that I really think about it, as a stand-alone sentence without any further context, I prefer the second sentence without the commas.

But since you have that sentence following another about the teacher, then I think you do need to have it separated by commas as an appositive.

The teacher opened the book and selected a poem. The poem, "The Giving Tree," was later adapted as a puppet show.

The second time you use "poem" you are referring to the previous occurrence of the use of the word, that is, the poem that was selected by the teacher. By using the appositive, you are further clarifying which poem the teacher selected as opposed to all the other poems out there.

If you had this as a stand-alone sentence, then commas would not be necessary, since there would be no need to distinguish the poem selected to be read by the teacher from all the other poems in the world.

Also, if you had an entire essay evaluating, explicating, and referring to a lot of different poems and by the time you got to this statement about "The Giving Tree" it might be entirely unclear to the reader as to which poem you were referring, then using the appositive with commas surrounding the title might be in order. And using the appositive would emphasize the title to the reader.
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dupre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2016 12:12 pm
@tanguatlay,
Without the commas in the second sentence, it's not entirely clear that you are referring to "the poem," that is, "the poem" that was selected by the teacher. You could be making a point about another poem as an aside comment.

For example: The teacher opened the book and selected a poem (let's say the poem was "How Do I Love Thee").

And then you follow that with a comment about a poem--an entirely different poem other than what was selected by the teacher--that was adapted as a puppet show.

Without any further context other than these two sentences, it's unclear what exactly what is needed and correct.

Let's say, for example, that you had been selected by a committee to find a poem that had been adapted as a puppet show for a school project and you are emailing someone on that committee saying that you reached out to your teacher for help in making a selection. The teacher selects "How Do I Love Thee," which has never been adapted as a puppet show. Let's say, you and the person you are emailing know that that particular poem has never been adapted as a puppet show. And you follow-up with a comment about a poem that has been adapted as a puppet show. In that case "the poem" in the second sentence would NOT be referring to "a poem" in the first and so you would not need to use the appositive with commas and could proceed with using "poem" as a noun modifying the title.

Example:

I reached out to the teacher for a suggestion on our project to find a poem that has been adapted as a puppet show. Guess what she did. The teacher opened the book and selected a poem. She selected "How Do I Love Thee." Wow. That's never been adapted as a puppet show; however, the poem "The Giving Tree" was later adapted as a puppet show.



So, depending on the context, you would or would not be using commas in the second sentence.

I hope that helps.

0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2016 12:25 pm
@tanguatlay,
And Tang, unless its meaning has changed recently, "Thankfully" is the wrong word because it says the weather is thankful. Unfortunately the meaning you intend has never been provided a suitable common word, something that has always puzzled me

So let's make one up
dupre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2016 12:31 pm
@dalehileman,
That's true! I would say, "We were thankful that the weather..."
dalehileman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2016 02:22 pm
@dupre,
Yea, good'n' Dup. However I'd still like to find that very special word. I suppose eg "fortunately" would work but it's still not quite right
dupre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2016 02:26 pm
@dalehileman,
"Fortunately" is perfectly marvelous!
dalehileman
 
  0  
Reply Sun 18 Dec, 2016 02:41 pm
@dupre,
Why thank you Dup, again made my entire day, maybe two
Howeveer it doesn't exactly mean "it is hoped that," and so still looking for that very special
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2016 10:59 am
@tanguatlay,
1,870 posts about 'should this random passage, I just happened to come accross, have a fcking comma in it?'

No purpose, as to why - Just is.

0 Replies
 
 

 
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