It's banned books week

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

yeh, youve kept it a bigger subject than one of "written by white guys". (And , of course) each of us has his or her "favorite" cultural bias.
Ive not attemptd to hide mine. Ive been mostly interested in the treatment of science by the community or the churches,(and how these conditions were ultimately resolved)

We all have our biases. Some authors I will not read, out of pure stubbornness, I suppose. Some authors who are sure to have been banned but I didn't see mentioned, such as M L King, wrote speeches and magazine articles, so the banning might go unnoticed. I don't reacall Alex Haley getting mentioned, but his best know works should be here some place. Then again, I may have overlooked their mention. I rarely completely read or recall every long list I see.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

I see why I am confused about this thread. I thought it was a thread about banned books (which by definition are books that challenge prevalent ideas or sensibilities). This thread isn't really about banned books at all (which is why my comments may be out of place).

Maybe you should have titled this thread...

Nonthreatening books enjoyed by aging White educated middle-class liberals.

Now I remember why I have you on ignore, your smugness is your hallmark. But you of course can start your own thread called "nonthreating books enjoyed by aging white educated middle class liberals", I'm sure folks would flock to it. Then you could be criticized for being too dim to live up to other people's expectations and for not including topics they would rather talk about. You must be a lot of fun at a party.

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@glitterbag,

I worry that Max is leaning toward the Hawkeye path. "I'm challenging conventional thinking therefore I'm valid". As opposed to "I'm challenging conventions because they need to be challenged as they lead to injustice - and it has nothing to do with my self-worth".

But that's just my worry.

But I think part of what he's asking is valid, although his dismissal of past banned books read is not.

Those banned books opened our eyes to another view, but they are of a time and place. I suspect his three suggestions were made that they might too. Which lead to a much more interesting thought. In the market for ideas, what sells you?

I have no interest in an anthropologist who marries a 14 year old 'to get an insider view of a culture', but Ishmael Beah's 'A Long Way Gone: Memoirs of a Boy Soldier' does interest me, and the latter is probably more distressing.

That said Max's thrown down gauntlet was 'would you ban these books?' - I don't think anyone said yes. But would anyone read them? And why?

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@glitterbag,

Something in the process of you ignoring me is not working quite right. You can start actually ignoring me at any time. I don't mind either way... but people quoting me and responding to tell me they are ignoring me always makes me chuckle.

No one has to buy or read a book that rubs them the wrong way. Not reading is different than keeping other people from reading it for themselves.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Quote:

No one has to buy or read a book that rubs them the wrong way. Not reading is different than keeping other people from reading it for themselves.

That's one of the few things you have said that I can agree with whole heartedly. The choice of informations should be available so others can make a informed decision and expanded upon their own views. Both sides of the coin are needed to make it a whole thing.

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@hingehead,

Thank you Hingehead... and I am not claiming that anything I say is valid. I express my opinions and defend them (and occasionally change them). I am not sure I agree with your use of the word "injustice". An important theme in what I write and think about is our society's move away from multiculturalism; that is, the ability to see and accept ideas that conflict with our own social norms. I am not sure if that is the same thing as injustice.

The writers we are talking about were trolls, some of them emphatically so. Some of the challenged conventions gleefully and emphatically. The works of Ginsburg and Burroughs (although they are no longer nearly as challenging now as they were in their time) were in-your-face and written to confront and shock.

I think I get your point about having a purpose for "challenging conventions". Injustice is only one of the possible goals. Though, I wonder if the writers were are talking about would agree with you. Certainly those writing from a civil rights perspective were... but the counter-cultural writers? I am not so sure.

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@glitterbag,

Dalton Trumbo, now there's a name I'd forgotten..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalton_Trumbo

Oddly, his name is sort of similar to a guy's that I am not impressed by - Donald Trump.

1 Reply

@hingehead,

hingehead wrote:

I worry that Max is leaning toward the Hawkeye path. "I'm challenging conventional thinking therefore I'm valid". As opposed to "I'm challenging conventions because they need to be challenged as they lead to injustice - and it has nothing to do with my self-worth".

But that's just my worry.

But I think part of what he's asking is valid, although his dismissal of past banned books read is not.

Those banned books opened our eyes to another view, but they are of a time and place. I suspect his three suggestions were made that they
might too. Which lead to a much more interesting thought. In the market for ideas, what sells you?

I have no interest in an anthropologist who marries a 14 year old 'to get an insider view of a culture', but Ishmael Beah's 'A Long Way Gone: Memoirs of a Boy Soldier' does interest me, and the latter is probably more distressing.

That said Max's thrown down gauntlet was 'would you ban these books?' - I don't think anyone said yes. But would anyone read them? And why?

Books that are a bad idea eventually go away on their own. I have no more interest in reading about an anthropologist who married a 14 year old than I did in Lolita. I don't have to marry a filly to learn about horses.

1 Reply

@ossobucotemp,

There is a recent movie about Dalton Trumbo. I didn't see it, but if it appears on TV will give it a shot.

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@XxSiCxX,

XxSiCxX wrote:

Quote:
No one has to buy or read a book that rubs them the wrong way. Not reading is different than keeping other people from reading it for themselves.

That's one of the few things you have said that I can agree with whole heartedly. The choice of informations should be available so others can make a informed decision and expanded upon their own views. Both sides of the coin are needed to make it a whole thing.

So far nobody on this thread has said they favor banning a single book. The guy just wants to be the center of attention.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

The guy just wants to be the center of attention.

You got that right. And I don't think anybody believes that he gives a damn about women or black people. His comments on other threads suggest the exact opposite. He's doing what passive aggressives always do, try to wrong foot someone so they can claim the moral highground.

He's so very dull and tedious.

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@edgarblythe,

Quote:

I have no interest in an anthropologist who marries a 14 year old 'to get an insider view of a culture',

To be fair, the writer in question is Kenneth Good who is a well-respected professor. The book in question is considered an important work in the field of anthropology. I believe it is part of required reading in most university anthropology programs.

You may not have any interest in reading it. That doesn't take away from its importance or the challenge it presents to modern cultural ideas.

I am glad that no one here thinks it should be banned.

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@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

Clicking through to the "reasons"

http://www.ala.org/bbooks/frequentlychallengedbooks/classics/reasons

I somehow missed your post. Good examples and explanations.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

This is good - and has pointed out to me a(nother) major difference between out two great nations.

We do ban books (or at least we used to) BUT - we don't piss around at city, school district, or county level. Our moral guardians are a federal authority (and were occasionally state).

I was having a look for a definitive list of banned books but in about 1973 legislation changed. So we don't censor, we classify. But a 'Refused Classification' is effectively a ban.

The legislative change came about because a view became predominant that 'adults should read what they want to read'.

From what I've read the two books that motivated this change were 'Lady Chatterly's Lover' and 'Catcher in the Rye'.

The former was so banned that 50 years after it's publication we were banned from hearing about a case involving it.

In the latter case we ended up in the embarrassing situation of customs seizing the gift of a crateload of copies of Salinger's book donated by the US government to the Australian government.

Anyway here's the list of banned books in reverse date order

Oddly (or not) the items most often receiving 'Classification refusted' these days are computer games. There a literally hundreds banned. Not sure how successful banning something you can download is, but they do it.

The Refused Classification movies list is up to - but I suspect these are almost all 'at one time, but no longer banned' - I know for effect that Baise-Moi is undergoing a revival right now courtesy of Olga on Facebook.

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I know some of the movies. I recall I did not want my kids to see death wish, because it promotes vigilante action, denying the accused any civil rights. I mentioned to my son I did not want him seeing it. He replied, "I saw it already on my friend's VCR."

The list of books cannot be viewed, because I am not a subscriber.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

You can see the list without being a subscriber - click on All (967)

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

I saw your link. I referred to hingehead's.

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@edgarblythe,

I'm talking about hingehead's banned book list.

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@ehBeth,

Oh yeah.
That's a really terrible list. I saw so many books I love. Some of those books you have to be a real nit picker to single out.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

We had the best nitpickers in the OECD - until 1973.

Now we're a godless hippy commune.

1 Reply

It's banned books week

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