Devoted to Medical Care of Rural Poor, Nuns Are Murdered In Mississippi

@Miller,

Miller wrote:

Foofie wrote:

George wrote:

Do you believe those women did not belong where they were?

What I believe about the world-wide Catholic Church would not be complimentary to many, so I choose not to respond to your question.

However, I will say that German Jews that survived WWII, mostly had the good sense to not stay in Germany, even after the Nazis were out of power. Interpret that as you choose; it is not my charge to give you a Yiddisha kup.

I recently read in the NYTimes, that German Jews, living in the UK, now want to return to Germany. Is this because those wanting to return to Germany are mainly from a younger generation?

I have no idea. If they are Jewish, of German-Jewish ancestry, I ignore them, as many had little respect for Jews from Czarist Russia. My grandfather was referred to by some German-Jews in NYC, in the late nineteenth century, as "wild eyed Asiatics." As the joke goes, no wonder so many NY Jews like Chinese food. And, remember that Ashkenazim from Russia were thought of as Oriental Jews.

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@George,

George wrote:

That they were needed there and that they could do the most good there?
That their presence in Weimar Germany was a mission of mercy?

Perhaps some did. I haven't the slightest idea.

The simple fact of the matter is: Holmes County, Mississippi is not Weimar
Germany. Not even close.

Whose mission of mercy? The Catholic Church's? Do you realize that the Catholic Church has put missionaries, nuns in harm's way, to effect their goals of being a follower of Christ? Something's wrong with that picture, in my opinion. In effect, if any clergy get hurt, exploited in a less than friendly environment the Catholic Church doesn't even make them a martyr, like the Christians that died at the hands of the Romans. My simple point is that before one is the victim of a crime, oftentimes one is considered EXPENDABLE. This lessens the perpetrators conscience, if the surrounding community doesn't value someone the way the majority is valued. It made the Holocaust easy to effect; the Catholic church were the original authors of European anti-Semitism that resulted in the Holocaust, since Europeans had learned their centuries of a learning curve: Jews are expendable.

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@Foofie,

Are you implying that nuns in rural Mississippi should be considered especially at risk because of their religion? How did the church put these women in harms way?

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While, with breathless anticipation, I await Foofie's reply to engineer . . .

Yes, it is a mission of mercy of the Catholic Church. And the Sisters
of Charity of Nazareth, the School Sisters of St. Francis, and most
particularly, Paula Merrill and Margaret Head.

Sending missionaries to spread the gospel is not unique to the
Catholic Church. Every Christian church does this. I cannot speak
for other churches, but in the Catholic Church, becoming a missionary
is entirely voluntary.

Putting oneself in harm's way is not uniquely religious. It happens
every day in the fields of science, national defence and exploration.
It is a way of life for first responders.

But were these women put in harm's way? Read the articles about
them. Get the facts. Paula Merrill lived and worked in Mississippi
for over thirty years before this happened. Thirty. Years. By all
accounts these women loved the people they ministered to and those
people loved them. Read. Get the facts.

Foofie, you hate the Catholic Church and you hate Catholics (me
included, presumably) for the persecution of the Jews. I get that.

You know what I hate?

Blaming the victim.

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@Foofie,

Quote:

Jews are expendable.

You and I are not expendable. Never say that "Jews are expendable" nor think that.

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The purpose in my writing this thread had nothing to do with the Catholic Church. I was greatly sadden by the senseless murder of two devoted nurses, who happened to be Catholic nuns.

For a very long time, since I was a small child growing up Chicago, I've known many nurses. Of the nurses in the Chicago area, the most ethical and caring for hospitalized patients have been the "nursing nuns". These women have also had an excellent reputation, when carrying out their nursing duties in Catholic hospitals.

Aa far as I know these women only work in hospitals that are under the supervision of the Catholic Church.

It's the nursing skill of these women, coupled as importantly with their strong sense of ethics and empathy that make them stand out over most hospital nurses, who are not associated with the Catholic Church in their practice of nursing.

The two Sisters, murdered in Mississippi, cared for the poor and by the way, they cared for individuals, who Society has tended to ignore. They were paid minimal sums of money ( if anything at all). Had they been working in NYC, Chicago or LA, or even Boston, these two women , with their education, skill and excellent clinical knowledge could easily have earned $150,000 per year.

They also, in general, took the place of MDs, since few Doctors served that part of Mississippi.

I , for one, am sorry at the turn this thread has taken. I never wanted this thread to be thought of as an anti-Catholic thread and I, as a Jewish woman don't appreciate, what I perceive as a hint of anti-Jewish sentiment.

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@Miller,

Miller wrote:

I , for one, am sorry at the turn this thread has taken. I never wanted this
thread to be thought of as an anti-Catholic thread and I, as a Jewish woman
don't appreciate, what I perceive as a hint of anti-Jewish sentiment.

From me?

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@George,

George wrote:

.
Foofie, you hate the Catholic Church and you hate Catholics (me
included, presumably) for the persecution of the Jews. I get that.

You know what I hate?

Blaming the victim.

No I don't hate the Catholic Church. I am just wary of them as many Protestant Americans are, in my opinion, that value the Protestant faith. In other words, the Catholic Church is a religion, and a top down, hierarchal world-wide organization, where once a country is "officially" Catholic it takes over the school system, and other functions. Wary means that, in my observations (aka, opinion) Catholicism where it is the country's faith might have other minorities, but the "attitude" of the "flock" is that if those minorities left the country, all could get on well without them. But, in Protestant America there is a realization that others are of value that are not Protestant. That might be because in the U.S. Protestants seem to have an Americanism that is based on what is good for America (like the contribution of minorities), while Catholics would just like, in my opinion, to make the U.S. one big parish, so to speak. Just my opinion, based on the possible hubris of NYC's Catholic community that are ever so involved in the "mother Church" to the exclusion of any concern for other brands of Christianity.

Howeveer, there are other sociological nuances. I do believe that 500 years of having to read (literate) to be a practicing Protestant did something positive to their gene pool. Sort of like Jews reading their prayers for over two millenia. And, if you didn't know, the Catholic Church did, I read, discourage literacy after the Protestant Reformation, for fear of making it easy for Catholics to convert.

You see, you might not really realize that one can be alienated from others without "hating." And yes, if this wasn't a Protestant nation, I would likely have left. There is something about Protestantism that promulgates the concept of "fair play'? Just my opinion.

I lastly think that this country appears philo-Semitic because it is the Protestants that would not want a "brain drain" if the Jews all went en masse elsewhere. Catholics I believe would react more like the Catholic Europeans after the Holocaust. ("Hey, the Jews are gone. No loss.")

And, I do not care who you hate. Please do not empower yourself by thinking I am concerned about your opinions.

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@Miller,

Miller wrote:

Quote:
Jews are expendable.

You and I are not expendable. Never say that "Jews are expendable" nor think that.

Well, they are not expendable for humanity. However, there are those that think they are, since in my opinion, it might offend their egos to admit the contributions to civilization of Jews. Has anybody mentioned to you lately the religious background of both Drs. Salk and Sabin?

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@Miller,

Miller wrote:

...The two Sisters, murdered in Mississippi, cared for the poor and by the way, they cared for individuals, who Society has tended to ignore. They were paid minimal sums of money ( if anything at all). Had they been working in NYC, Chicago or LA, or even Boston, these two women , with their education, skill and excellent clinical knowledge could easily have earned $150,000 per year.

They also, in general, took the place of MDs, since few Doctors served that part of Mississippi.

I , for one, am sorry at the turn this thread has taken. I never wanted this thread to be thought of as an anti-Catholic thread and I, as a Jewish woman don't appreciate, what I perceive as a hint of anti-Jewish sentiment.

Naturally no one of civilized thinking thinks it wasn't a tragedy. But, my point is that in some regions, if one is part of an "out-group," there could be less concern for the victims. That would make it less problematic for any conscience of a perpetrator. So, I would have rather seen the nurses practicing in a mid-Atlantic state.

But, the hubris, as I perceive it, of waving the virtual flag of religious aggrandizement, by talking of "missions of mercy" exposes, in my opinion, an attitude of self-rightousness that I've seen before in those that can accept no constructive criticism, especially from a JEW. It is also nice to have an opportunity to compliment Protestant America, since it is Protestant America that made this country a haven for my family. Catholics, like in Europe, tended to just want them out of their presence. And, that is just the truth, as I see it. That is a right in Protestant America. It probably would not be if America was officially a Catholic country.

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Tunnel vision, on parade again by Foofie.

What a way to treat a thread about nursing nuns being murdered.

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@ossobucotemp,

ossobucotemp wrote:

Tunnel vision, on parade again by Foofie.

What a way to treat a thread about nursing nuns being murdered.

I think of it as not accepting the tunnel vision of those that see their "Church" as above reproach, and not empowering a smug attitude about the right to be wherever one wants, with no adverse repercussions. It is reminiscent, in my opinion, of the Polish Jews that were so surprised when Nazis had no remorse in eradicating them.

Let's not harp on the tragic murder, but the lament of such a tragic end to a "mission of mercy." They were just doing Good Works. A Mission of Mercy just makes it a little bit too hubristic, in my opinion.

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@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

Has anybody mentioned to you lately the religious background of both Drs. Salk and Sabin?

Albert Sabin
(Albert Saperstein)
August 26, 1906 – March 3, 1993

Polio sure sucks, doesn't it? Thank G-d for Jonas Salk, Jew, for ridding the world of it, right?

Right! But not completely correct...

Don't get us wrong, we love Dr. Salk at JONJ. He's got the perfect score and everything. But he should not be the only one getting credit for getting rid of polio.

Salk invented the injected vaccine, which he started trialing in 1952 and announced in 1955. Two years later, an oral vaccine was invented by Albert Sabin; it was actually easier to administer than Salk's. Together, the two vaccines swept the world, making polio a thing of the past. So, as much as we love Dr. Salk, Dr. Sabin needs to get his share of the credit...

Polio sure sucks, doesn't it? Thank G-d for two Jews for ridding the world of it, right!
www.jewornotjew.com

MILLER RESPONSE:

Site after site will state that Salk and Sabin , from an ethnic perspective, were both Jewish scientists.. As far as religion is concerned, in my experience, very few scientists belong to a formal religion. Thus, I can't state anything about Salk and Sabin's religion ,when practiced as adults.

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@Miller,

If memory serves, I was invited to work at Salk Institute, one good interview, but I moved back to my home area instead. I started out as catholic, and later a crabby catholic, and some year later, an atheist for fifty years now. Not only did I like Salk for obvious reasons, I liked Louis Kahn, who designed the Institute.

I am not anti religion, see the good parts of it.
On the other hand, I failed to join a nursing nun order when I was seventeen, as I didn't want to be a missionary, and I was from a family of some well disposed to missionaries, my parents for example.
When push came to shove, they were on my side re not becoming a postulant.

Foofie builds on bias long held.

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@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

No I don't hate the Catholic Church.

Glad to hear it.

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I see I broke my own rule, aggravated as I get.

These two nuns are important.

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@George,

George wrote:

Foofie wrote:
No I don't hate the Catholic Church.
Glad to hear it.

Yes, Foofie doesn't hate. That is an archaic emotion. But, I am not naive and understand, in my opinion, that the vast majority of those raised in a Catholic background do feel that a Jewish person can never really be like them from the perspective of world outlook, and therefore any friendly interaction is sort of superficial. I've also noticed that Catholics, more than Protestants, have no compunction to talk behind the back of a Jew, even though they do not want a Jew talking about him/her behind his/her back. I attribute this to the remnants of Jews being demonized in Europe to the point that Catholics tended to think a Jew might be up to "no good." I believe these attitudes are less prevalent amongst Protestants, possibly because Protestants have greater self-esteem about their capability, and do not think they need to maintain all fellow Protestants on "alert" relative to some Jew in their midst (work/school). These are only generalizations; however, there could be a lot of truth in these thoughts, at least in the U.S.,, since Catholics might be less sure of their place in U.S. society, and might even feel that they are competing with Jews for a place in some societal pecking order?

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@Foofie,

I don't know. I'll discuss it with my son-in-law. He's Jewish.

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A scholarship for nursing students is being established at Regis College ( Massachusetts) in memory of the nursing nuns, murdered in Mississippi.

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@George,

George wrote:

I don't know. I'll discuss it with my son-in-law. He's Jewish.

I was giving you information that not all Jewish people subscribe to. And, we all do not march lock step in our opinions. That's the old joke: Have a room with three Jews, and there'll be four opinions.

Anyway, your Hebrew Security Clearance might only be good for Jewish Jokes, not Jewish Sociology!

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Devoted to Medical Care of Rural Poor, Nuns Are Murdered In Mississippi

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