I'm Sorry

Some of us in the US are sorry to Wilso my heart is crying already.

Our news reports are telling us that most US citizens also believe that it should only happen under the banner of the UN. Is this correct?

Wilso
I also am sorry. All the tragedies on the planet already and Bush has to make one more. I do not even want it if the UN goes along. There is just no justification.

Wilso- I think that there is a mixed opinion in the United States. Many people are for toppling Saddam, although lately there has been a resurgence of a peace movement.

Personally, I don't think that the US needs "permission" from the UN to do anything, although in practice it may be desirable, politically.

I don't want a war. I think that most normal people don't want war at all, ever. I am fearful though, that the longer that we wait, the closer the terrorists, fueled by the money from rogue states, will be able to do a lot more harm than 9/11 not only to the US, but to the entire Western world.

I HOPE THAT I DON'T KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!

I probably should have put a "no war at all" option. Could the moderators add this?

Wilso- You can do it. Go back to your first post. Hit "edit". At the bottom of you thread, you can add another option to your poll!

Wilso--
When I tried it, it only worked when I hit Preview before Submit.

I think the whole thing is a mess. Completely out of control.
I don't know who to believe anymore or what to think about any of it at this point. To much propoganda all around.

I do think the Butcher has to go, the sooner the better. Long overdue in my book.

I voted to go with UN approval, not that their approval will make much of a difference to the innocent who suffer from all of this.

I don't know what to think anymore. A tough spot we're all in.

Wilso- I did it, without clicking "preview" and I had no problem. Did you know that you have to click "add option" AFTER you write the last option, or the last option won't appear!

And I apologize to all of the brave men and women in the Australian army who will be fighting to eliminate one of the most evil forces in the world, despite the apparent ingratitude of some of their fellow countrymen.

No sane person WANTS war, but at times it is our only option.

Unless he is removed by his own people ( highly unlikely) or others in the region (slightly more possible), this is one of those times.

That was a tough poll. I was torn between - u.n. approval and no, never. Then i realized that if the u.n. can be convinced, then the people who are even more cautious than i am will be convinced, so i'll try to be convinced.

Phoenix, so much of the world is already angry at the u.s. for interfering in all types of things outside of its own borders that independent action is somewhere on the far far far side of foolhardy. I believe there are people who are literally waiting for a reason to attack the u.s. 'Permission' from the u.n. will deflect a few of them. 'Permission' from the u.n. will at the same time bring other countries to the aid of the u.s. when it might not have come otherwise.

Only about 6% of Australians support a war without UN support.

It seems many of our troops feel the same - (based only on interviews with departing personnel.)

Maxsdadeo - please do not presume to know what is in the hearts and minds of Australians in relation to our troops.

My sense of it is, although an overwhelming majority of Australians appear opposed to a war on Iraq decided upon without UN support - (I do not have poll results on opposition to a war WITH UN sanction - but it seems there is wide-spread opposition to this, too) - that we have, in relation to our soldiers, learned the bitter and tragic lessons of Vietnam, and that our soldiers' courage and sacrifice will be honoured, even as our Government's decision to send them at this point is opposed.

dlowan: I won't, if you promise not to presume to speak for the Australian people as a whole.


The fact that so many people are so willing to grant such power to a group of moon calves like the UN is chilling.

These are the same people who couldn't agree on the shape of the table in the Korean Conflict peace talks, and they have gotten less decisive ever since.

They are loathe to make a decision, unless, of course it is to decide what is NOT in the best interests of the US.

ehBeth- This entire issue is so complex, that for me, I find it difficult to separate the facts from the "spin", the truth from the bullshit.

Yes, I do believe that many countries are (rightfully) angered at the US for its meddling in their business. I believe that this meddling has a big part in the terrorism that has developed and become strong over the years. And yes, I do believe that for some extremists, it IS a holy war.

I think that you are right about the UN, as it WILL bring other nations to our assistance. The problem is, that I am convinced that the longer we wait around, the stronger and more organized the terrorist cells will become. And that does not bode well for Western civilization.

The fact that the extremists idolize martyrdom, makes it very difficult to negotiate with them. Most sophisticated people, bottom line, are interested in keeping on living. The extremists believe that blowing themselves in the interests of jihad, or whatever they call it in other countries, gives them a one way ticket to heaven. How do you negotiate with an army of suicide bombers?

I was not, in fact, doing so, Max.

As you may note, I have distinguished poll results from "my sense" - however, that "sense" is based on listening to lots of radio including talk-back - listening to lots of people, reading a number of different newspapers and seeing apparently random interviews with people on the street and soldiers.

I am well aware of the danger of presuming accuracy from such sources, which is why I have been clear about which is which.


At the very least I would assume my "sense" is more accurate than your view.

With the best will in the world, while I am reasonably aware of problems with the UN, I am even less disposed to trust the views and decisions of your current administration on this matter - as well as being extremely alarmed at the prospect of the US - with all its faults as well as its virtues - becoming an all-powerful world police force with accountability to nobody, really, and an inclination for pre-emptive strikes. In saying this I am aware that, for a superpower of its stature - unchallenged, really, especially since the collapse of the Soviet Union - the US has been relatively restrained when viewed from the perspective of history.



Max, the reason I feel reasonably confident of what I am saying, is that I was stunned at the national "mood". This is a huge change from public opinion about sending troops to Afghanistan - that had overwhelming public support. I have found it incredible that the feeling about this action is so different, so I have tended to look at what is being expressed very carefully.

from what I understand from an NPR interview yesterday only 30% of americans are for unilateral war at the president's discression.

I've personally asked about 50 people where I work their opinion. The result so far
-49 no war without UN sanction.
-1 no war at all.
All 50-George Jnr is finishing his Daddy's job.

He's looking more and more like King George rather than Mr President.....