5
   

Religion

 
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jun, 2016 02:04 pm
@Smileyrius,
What are you concerned about, exactly?
0 Replies
 
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jun, 2016 05:25 pm
@Smileyrius,
Do you find that the government that you currently submit to causes you to question your "freedom"? I get the idea that something has have led you to the idea that submission to any God run government is akin to an autonomous society, void of independent action.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jun, 2016 07:29 am
@rosborne979,
Quote:

You mean like assuming that the "Devil" actually exists?
It's a thought experiment ros. We are assuming the beings in the bible exist and whether their actions make logical sense. The OP just starts out with a wrong assumption about those actions in the bible.

Not that you were actually interested...
momoends
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jun, 2016 07:54 am
@Leadfoot,
If they existed devil would not be able to influence human kind behaviour at all unless God consented on it. God being allpowerful would be allowing the bad to mess with men and get them to sin, condemming themselves by supposedly acting against god's will, when God allowing the devil's anticts clearly shows its god's will humanity to sin, turning sinners from god's offenders to his most devoted sons
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jun, 2016 08:15 am
@momoends,
The concept of God being omnipotent is a false assumption. He is bound by the same rules of reason and logic as we are.

The wager between God and Satan was that given free will to choose, no one would choose God's way over Satan's. If Satan were not allowed to present his case, it would not be a fair trial.
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jun, 2016 08:21 am
@Amel Mrissa,
A. Define 'devil'?
B. Define 'Attributes' thereof?
C. Don't make absolute premisses/ees/ae based on fantasy (For Timur - A POSTERIORI foundations).
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jun, 2016 08:24 am
@Leadfoot,
God?
He?
Bound?

Really lead?

Promoted to 'court-jester'.
0 Replies
 
momoends
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jun, 2016 09:51 am
@Leadfoot,
Ephesiansn verses 19-23, Paul describes the third foundational truth which is fundamental to the faith and practice of the Ephesian believers: the knowledge of His infinite power:

I think infinite power is quite close to omnipotent
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jun, 2016 09:57 am
@Leadfoot,
All he needs is OJ Simpson's dream team.
0 Replies
 
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jun, 2016 12:11 pm
@momoends,
momoends wrote:

Ephesiansn verses 19-23, Paul describes the third foundational truth which is fundamental to the faith and practice of the Ephesian believers: the knowledge of His infinite power:

I think infinite power is quite close to omnipotent


which translation do you get the word infinite from momo?
momoends
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jun, 2016 12:47 pm
@Smileyrius,
The one given in a dictionary: (ĭn′fə-nĭt)
adj.
1. Having no boundaries or limits; impossible to measure or calculate. See Synonyms at incalculable.
2. Immeasurably great or large; boundless: infinite patience; a discovery of infinite importance.
3. Mathematics
a. Existing beyond or being greater than any arbitrarily large value.
b. Unlimited in spatial extent: a line of infinite
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jun, 2016 01:22 pm
@momoends,
Sorry Momo, what I mean is that you have quoted a scripture (I think) which does not use the word infinite, rather from the concordance uses two greek words to describe Gods power,
"uperballw" meaning "surpassing, or passing the normal mark of"
and
"megeqoj" meaning "greatness or magnitude"
so while the Ephesians 1:19 describes Gods power as being beyond what is considered to be "great", that does not suggest that it is infinite.

I think omnipotence is a construct of the introduction of Hellenistic Philosophy to the Early Church teachings, but I don't see much in the way of scriptural support for it.
momoends
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jun, 2016 01:29 pm
@Smileyrius,
huperballó megethos

How come you consider greek as the original language?
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jun, 2016 01:35 pm
@Smileyrius,
Oh, not again....

Is 45.7
If you have to live by doctrine - Please understand the doctrine you live by - It's quite clear.

Ps. Don't proselytise/ze - The God-figure you do unto - Loathes that shite...
0 Replies
 
Smileyrius
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 Jun, 2016 01:58 pm
@momoends,
Although much of the Christian Greek scriptures was an expansion of quotations and allusions to the Hebrew texts, it was written to my knowledge in Koine Greek,which was the main language of the mediterannean at the time rather than our English, Problem is that translation bias, the inclination to translate in favour of the point of view of the translator, can sometimes cause confusion amongst theists who get caught on specific wording, exemplified for instance by Young Earth Creationists, who believe the word "YOM" to be a literal 24 hour day, even though the same Hebrew word is used to descrive a week, an evening, a month, a period in which crops would grew, a period in which a baby was born, a lifetime and eternity.
So by comparing my translations with the original language, I find more clarity, and find it easier to clear up contradictions and misunderstandings.
I do appreciate that my interpretation could be just as flawed and just as biased. I just try to keep that in mind when formulating theories on scripture.

I am no scholar, in fact I am quite a simple minded man, but I am a keen student of scripture, I find it to be therapeutic.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jun, 2016 03:01 pm
@Smileyrius,
The fact that you consider yourself a "simple minded man" shows much credibility from my POV.
Everybody uses subjective interpretations of what they see and do. We develop likes and dislikes from experience, and tend towards those things that makes us more comfortable.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jun, 2016 10:46 pm
@Smileyrius,
Smileyrius wrote:

Do you find that the government that you currently submit to causes you to question your "freedom"?


Of course it does.

Smileyrius wrote:
I get the idea that something has have led you to the idea that submission to any God run government is akin to an autonomous society, void of independent action.


At least in regard to a religious organization, that's the fee to be paid for the promises proffered.



Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 08:56 am
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
At least in regard to a religious organization, that's the fee to be paid for the promises proffered.
Fair enough. Do you see a third way?
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 09:08 am
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
an autonomous society, void of independent action.
Quote:
At least in regard to a religious organization, that's the fee to be paid for the promises proffered.

So it is not the idea of a God governed world you believed to be autonomous, but organisations that currently claim to represent that that God?
I understand your perspective, you are talking about mind regulation, the second you submit to a religion, you are subscribing to a set of beliefs and core principles that are shared by those within.
Thing is Infra, there is much more to a persons thought than their core principles and beliefs on the god conundrum, but if you do not agree, I respect your position my friend.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 10:23 am
@Leadfoot,
No.
 

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