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The Panama Papers: Probably the Biggest Leak of All Time

 
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 09:23 am
@Robert Gentel,
I thought this was a tax evasion story. I guess I should make sure - but why is this a story if not?
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 09:27 am
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/panama-papers-reaction-1.3519263

Quote:
Similarly, the political future of Iceland's prime minister is in danger because of his reported links to an offshore account in the British Virgin Islands.

Sigmundur David Gunnlaugsson faces a vote of no confidence in parliament Monday after news reports linked him and his wife to an account that was created with the help of Mossack Fonseca.

The revelation concerns offshore company Wintris Inc., which Gunnlaugsson allegedly set up in 2007 along with his wife Anna Sigurlaug Palsdottir.

The opposition has called for a vote against the center-right government.
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 09:28 am
@Lash,
It probably is, but I have yet to see any evidence for that come out.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 09:32 am
@Lash,
What are the Panama Papers? A guide to the biggest data leak in history
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 09:43 am
Public condemnation can be as effective as legal, in many cases.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 09:52 am
@Robert Gentel,
Well, these eleven million documents passed to the Süddeutsche Zeitung show at least how the Panamanian law firm Mossack Fonseca has helped clients launder money, dodge sanctions and evade tax.
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 10:36 am
@Walter Hinteler,
That is certainly the obvious implication, I am sure that tax evasion and crimes happened but I have not seen Süddeutsche Zeitung release any hard evidence of actual crimes yet. If they have already released it since I last perused it feel free to point me at what specific crimes have been documented so far.

But if your point is that you assume that there is crimes to uncover in this data that I agree with, but I just haven't heard of any specific ones yet.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 10:45 am
@Robert Gentel,
I think it will take time before any crimes will be uncovered. Revealing that someone has an offshore company isn't a crime or an issue until the country they are from discovers that the person never declared it as required by their local tax laws. It certainly looks incriminating when members of Putin's inner circle and the Chinese ruling party have accounts here.

One mention was a large amount of money was suddenly moved into these accounts by a person winning a state contract in Russia shortly after winning that contract.
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 11:01 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
I think it will take time before any crimes will be uncovered.


That is my expectation, they have been working on these docs for a while and did not release them with any announced findings of said crime, so I don't think it will be that quick (that is, if they were so easy to find some would have been found by now and announced in the first tranche released).
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 11:04 am
And of course Wikileaks, as it has in all major leaks since it ceased to have any relevancy, is acting like they have something to do with this too (after tyring to get in on the Snowden story too).

I'm glad that this organization exists, it is a much better place to leak information than to an organization run by a shady megalomaniac like Wikileaks.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 11:05 am
@Robert Gentel,
The government has the information on what people have claimed on tax returns. The press has the documents from Panama.

Until the 2 get matched up there won't be any hard evidence of a crime. I am guessing the press didn't want to turn the documents over to governments and wait until crimes were found to release this.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 11:24 am
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:
But if your point is that you assume that there is crimes to uncover in this data that I agree with, but I just haven't heard of any specific ones yet.
The research results are a help for the prosecutors, they are no guarantee that there will be convictions.
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 11:32 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

The government has the information on what people have claimed on tax returns. The press has the documents from Panama.

Until the 2 get matched up there won't be any hard evidence of a crime.


I understand that, which is why I was surprised to see crimes being discussed early.

Quote:
I am guessing the press didn't want to turn the documents over to governments and wait until crimes were found to release this.


Interestingly, no Americans are in the released data that I have seen, I suspect some governments have negotiated no release of the information till they pursue the potential crimes.

I expect data on Americans to have been present and think that this data is already in US government hands.
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 11:34 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
The research results are a help for the prosecutors, they are no guarantee that there will be convictions.


I wasn't asking for convictions, just evidence of the crimes people were talking about but ultimately it was just speculation, and I thought some news had broken while I wasn't paying attention.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 12:10 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Well, we have a different legal and judiciary system here: only courts decide, if it is a crime - everything before a conviction is just speculation.
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 12:17 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Sure, but not all speculation is created equal and when you claimed that there was evidence for several specific crimes this was not a claim sourced from any evidence of said crimes. If evidence of said crimes comes out even before a conviction it is a horse of an entirely different color than speculation without any basis. We don't need a conviction for there to be some evidence for those claims, but as it stands it looks like there is not any and that is what I was pointing out.
edgarblythe
 
  0  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 12:27 pm
Here is an article I ran across

Corporate Media Gatekeepers Protect Western 1% From Panama Leak
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/04/corporate-media-gatekeepers-protect-western-1-from-panama-leak/
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 12:30 pm
Interesting timing as the 2016 International Narcotics Control Strategy Report was released recently - with things to say about money laundering in Panama.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2016/03/253905.htm
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 12:31 pm
@edgarblythe,
I think that author has it ass-backwards. The journalists investigating this are some of the best people to do this that there are and his complaints don't make any sense.
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2016 12:36 pm
@ehBeth,
Panama has been a widely-known tax haven (and a place for money laundering) for a long time now. Till very recently they even allowed for bearer-bond corporations and were one of the most attractive havens on earth, Panama city is dotted with banks and banking is one of their biggest industries.
 

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