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Failed to get "is fully belied here,as it is"?

 
 
Reply Mon 18 Jan, 2016 12:58 am
Does "is fully belied here,as it is" mean "is fully proven false here, such a fact is undeniable in any circumstances"?

Context:

The moral truth here is obvious: anyone who feels that the interests of a blastocyst just might supersede the interests of a child with a spinal cord injury has had his moral sense blinded by religious metaphysics. The link between religion and "morality" - so regularly proclaimed andso seldom demonstrated- is fully belied here,as it is wherever religious dogma supersedes moral reasoning and genuine compassion.

-Sam Harris
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Type: Question • Score: 1 • Views: 438 • Replies: 8
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View best answer, chosen by oristarA
Blickers
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Reply Mon 18 Jan, 2016 01:43 am
@oristarA,
Pretty much. To "belie"means you have proved a certain indicator or assumption to be ultimately untrue. As in, "Jack's sharp, excellent play on the ballfield belied the teacher's report of his being an unathletic, clumsy boy."
oristarA
 
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Reply Mon 18 Jan, 2016 06:43 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:

Pretty much. To "belie"means you have proved a certain indicator or assumption to be ultimately untrue. As in, "Jack's sharp, excellent play on the ballfield belied the teacher's report of his being an unathletic, clumsy boy."


Thanks.
Still, I feel the meaning of "as it is" is more or less elusive to me. Would you like to rewrite it with other words so that I may understand it more accurately?
Blickers
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Jan, 2016 09:22 am
@oristarA,
The original version by Sam Harris: The link between religion and "morality" - so regularly proclaimed and so seldom demonstrated- is fully belied here, as it is wherever religious dogma supersedes moral reasoning and genuine compassion.

An equivalent would be: The link between religion and "morality" - so regularly proclaimed and so seldom demonstrated- is shown to be completely false here, as it always will always be shown to be false wherever religious dogma supersedes moral reasoning and genuine compassion.
Blickers
 
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Reply Mon 18 Jan, 2016 09:31 am
@oristarA,
One more note: Although this doesn't apply here, when the phrase "such as it is" is applied to something, it means that thing is very weak or even phony. For instance, if a man is on trial for robbing a bank, and his legal defense is that extraterrestrials from space told him he had to rob the bank or they would kill him, (which is a very weak, silly defense which no jury is likely to believe), a reporter might say, "His defense, such as it is, is not likely to be successful".

In other words, strictly speaking, he has a legal defense, but it is so weak that it can barely be called a defense. That is when the phrase, "such as it is", is employed-when something is that bad.
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oristarA
 
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Reply Mon 18 Jan, 2016 10:56 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:

The original version by Sam Harris: The link between religion and "morality" - so regularly proclaimed and so seldom demonstrated- is fully belied here, as it is wherever religious dogma supersedes moral reasoning and genuine compassion.

An equivalent would be: The link between religion and "morality" - so regularly proclaimed and so seldom demonstrated- is shown to be completely false here, as it always will be shown to be false wherever religious dogma supersedes moral reasoning and genuine compassion.


Excellent.
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layman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2016 01:57 am
@Blickers,
Quote:
To "belie"means you have proved a certain indicator or assumption to be ultimately untrue.


I think that's putting it too strongly. "Belie" has been defined in a variety of ways, but, generally speaking, I don't think it means anything has been "proven." The suggestion is more that something inconsistent or contradictory is being exhibited. To "belie" means something more like "to cast doubt on" than it does "to prove wrong."

To me, a synonym might be "undercut," or "undermine," i.e., cast doubt on it's foundation or validity. But "doubts" are not proofs. They simply raise questions.

Example:

Joe says: Today in Monday.
Jack says: No, today is Tuesday.

What Jack says "belies" what Joe said. They can't both be right, but Jack disagreeing does not prove that he is right.
oristarA
 
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Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2016 05:56 am
@layman,
Excellent.
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Tes yeux noirs
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2016 04:50 pm
If A belies B then A shows that B is false or calls B into question. Synonyms: contradict, be at odds with, call into question, give the lie to, show/prove to be false; disprove, debunk, discredit, explode, knock the bottom out of, drive a coach and horses through.

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