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Does "as few mental states exert so sweeping an influence over human life" mean...?

 
 
Reply Wed 23 Dec, 2015 11:15 am
Does "as few mental states exert so sweeping an influence over human life" mean "because few mental states exert so sweeping an influence over human life like belief does"?


Context:


What Is !°Belief!


It is surprising that so little research has been done on belief, as few mental states exert so sweeping an influence over human life. While we often make a conventional distinction between "belief" and "knowledge," these categories are actually quite misleading.

-Sam Harris
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Type: Question • Score: 3 • Views: 836 • Replies: 20
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View best answer, chosen by oristarA
dalehileman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 23 Dec, 2015 11:57 am
@oristarA,
Yea Ori tho I'da writ "life as belief"

Quote:
What Is !°Belief!
Probly religious conviction
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Dec, 2015 01:59 pm
@dalehileman,
Thank you Dale.

The author went on:

Quote:
And yet our beliefs can be represented and expressed as discrete statements.
Imagine hearing any one of the following assertions from a trusted friend:
1. The CDC just announced that cell phones really do cause brain cancer.
2. My brother won $100,000 in Las Vegas over the weekend.
3. Your car is being towed.
We trade in such representations of the world all the time. The acceptance of such statements as true (or likely to be true) is the mechanism by which we acquire most of our knowledge about the world. While it would not make any sense to search for structures in the brain that correspond to specific sentences, we may be able to understand the brain states that allow us to accept such sentences as true. When someone says "Your car is being towed," it is your acceptance of this statement as true that sends you racing out the door. "Belief", therefore, can be thought of as a process taking place in the present; it is the act of grasping, not the thing grasped.


Failed to get a clear of picture of "it is the act of grasping, not the thing grasped".
Does it mean "it is the act of grasping (something for your benefit), not the thing (that is grasped by something external - well, I don't know how the explain this)"?
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Dec, 2015 03:12 pm
@oristarA,
Quote:
Thank you Dale
You're welcome Ori though I evidently wrong

Otherwise I don't get a clear pic either. Let's hope we get a response or two from someone deeper than at least I
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Dec, 2015 12:18 am
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:

Quote:
Thank you Dale
You're welcome Ori though I evidently wrong

Otherwise I don't get a clear pic either. Let's hope we get a response or two from someone deeper than at least I


Yeah, let's wait. Wink
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Thu 24 Dec, 2015 12:23 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:

Does "as few mental states exert so sweeping an influence over human life" mean "because few mental states exert so sweeping an influence over human life like belief does"?
...


Yep.
0 Replies
 
FBM
  Selected Answer
 
  2  
Reply Thu 24 Dec, 2015 12:27 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:

... "Belief", therefore, can be thought of as a process taking place in the present; it is the act of grasping, not the thing grasped.


Failed to get a clear of picture of "it is the act of grasping, not the thing grasped".
Does it mean "it is the act of grasping (something for your benefit), not the thing (that is grasped by something external - well, I don't know how the explain this)"?
[/quote]

It seems to me that it means that "belief" is an action, not a thing. For example, a religion is something different from a person's belief in it. The religion isn't the belief, it's just a set of ideas, tradions, praxes, etc. The person's act of believing it is the belief.

That's the best I can do with it right now, anyway. http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/wake.gif
oristarA
 
  2  
Reply Thu 24 Dec, 2015 12:36 am
@FBM,
FBM wrote:

oristarA wrote:

... "Belief", therefore, can be thought of as a process taking place in the present; it is the act of grasping, not the thing grasped.


Failed to get a clear of picture of "it is the act of grasping, not the thing grasped".
Does it mean "it is the act of grasping (something for your benefit), not the thing (that is grasped by something external - well, I don't know how the explain this)"?


It seems to me that it means that "belief" is an action, not a thing. For example, a religion is something different from a person's belief in it. The religion isn't the belief, it's just a set of ideas, tradions, praxes, etc. The person's act of believing it is the belief.

That's the best I can do with it right now, anyway. http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/wake.gif
[/quote]

Quite cool.
Because I got a clearer picture.
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Dec, 2015 02:57 am

The author went on:

Quote:

The question of free will is no mere curio of philosophy seminars. The belief in free will underwrites both the religious notion of "sin" and our enduring commitment to retributive justice.
The Supreme Court has called free will a "universal and persistent"
foundation for our system of law, distinct from "a deterministic view of human conduct that is inconsistent with the underlying precepts of our criminal justice system" (United States v. Grayson, 1978).Any scientific developments that threatened our notion of free will would seem to put the ethics of punishing people for their bad behavior in question.


Does "a deterministic view of human conduct" refer to "a view of human conduct that is based on determinism"?
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Thu 24 Dec, 2015 03:11 am
@oristarA,
Yes. A deterministic view of human behavior does not make the individual accountable for his/her actions. Punitive sentences would be illogical if that view were adopted. Instead, sentences would focus on therapeutic behavior modification instead.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Dec, 2015 07:26 am
@FBM,
FBM wrote:

Yes. A deterministic view of human behavior does not make the individual accountable for his/her actions. Punitive sentences would be illogical if that view were adopted. Instead, sentences would focus on therapeutic behavior modification instead.


Excellent!
layman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Dec, 2015 08:35 am
@oristarA,
Quote:
A deterministic view of human behavior does not make the individual accountable for his/her actions. Punitive sentences would be illogical if that view were adopted. Instead, sentences would focus on therapeutic behavior modification instead.


If that view were adapted, "focus" on anything would be impossible. Either we would punish the living **** out of people or we wouldn't. Whatever we did, we would be compelled to do it, and could we couldn't be held "accountable for our actions."

0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Dec, 2015 01:00 pm
The author went on:

Quote:
What does it really mean to take responsibility for an action? For instance, yesterday I went to the market; as it turns out, I was fully clothed, did not steal anything, and did not buy anchovies. To say that I was responsible for my behavior is simply to say that what I did was sufficiently in keeping with my thoughts, intentions, beliefs, and desires to be considered an extension of them. If, on the other hand, I had found myself standing in the market naked, intent upon stealing as many tins of anchovies as I could
carry, this behavior would be totally out of character; I would feel that I was not in my right mind, or that I was otherwise not responsible for my actions. Judgments of responsibility, therefore, depend upon the overall complexion of one's mind, not on themetaphysics of mental cause and effect.


1) Does "an extension of them" refer to "an extension of "my thoughts, intentions, beliefs""?
2) Does " the overall complexion" mean "the overall situation"?
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Dec, 2015 02:13 am
@oristarA,
1) Yes.
2) Yes, the current state of mind, and that can change over time, I think.
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Dec, 2015 09:55 am
Thank you.
----------------------------------

Failed to get the use of "quantities"- why not use "factors" instead? Because "genes, bad parents, bad ideas, and bad luck" should best be seen as "factors", rather than "quantities", which seem not very proper to me.
It is probably that I am not familiar with the word quantity.
I'd like to see your opinions and instructions.

Context (the author went on):
Quote:
While viewing human beings as forces of nature does not prevent us from thinking in terms of moral responsibility, it does call the logic of retribution into question. Clearly, we need to build prisons for people who are intent upon harming others. But if we could incarcerate earthquakes and hurricanes for their crimes, we would build prisons The men and women on death row have some combination of bad for them as well.genes, bad parents, bad ideas, and bad luck-which of these quantities, exactly, were they responsible for? No human being stands as author to his own genes or his upbringing, and yet we have every reason to believe that these factors determine his character throughout life. Our system of justice should reflect our understanding that each of us could have been dealt a very different hand in life. In fact, it seems immoral not to recognize just how much luck is involved in morality itself.
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Dec, 2015 10:38 am
@oristarA,
I agree with you. "factors" would have been better than "quantities" there. The text seems fragmented and odd, though. Is the author a native English speaker?
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Dec, 2015 12:11 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:

I agree with you. "factors" would have been better than "quantities" there. The text seems fragmented and odd, though. Is the author a native English speaker?


The author, Sam Harris, American author, philosopher, and neuroscientist.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Dec, 2015 08:34 pm
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:

...for them as well.genes, bad parents, bad ideas, and...


That part. It may be just a typo.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Dec, 2015 10:17 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:

oristarA wrote:

...for them as well.genes, bad parents, bad ideas, and...


That part. It may be just a typo.



What typo? If it is a typo, how to correct it?
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Dec, 2015 10:23 pm
@oristarA,
Quote:
But if we could incarcerate earthquakes and hurricanes for their crimes, we would build prisons [...] The men and women on death row have some combination of bad for them as [well.genes,] bad parents, bad ideas, and bad luck-which of these quantities, exactly, were they responsible for?


Here's the original: https://books.google.co.kr/books?id=5FRW30QaDQwC&pg=PA109&lpg=PA109&dq=But+if+we+could+incarcerate+earthquakes+and+hurricanes+for+their+crimes,+we+would+build+prisons&source=bl&ots=9-55M8Xdps&sig=ZdbmztCA15vaH3YhN4su9-XWH5c&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj-4L2-1vjJAhUnnqYKHT33CMsQ6AEIGzAA#v=onepage&q=But%20if%20we%20could%20incarcerate%20earthquakes%20and%20hurricanes%20for%20their%20crimes%2C%20we%20would%20build%20prisons&f=false
 

 
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