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Another Form of Affirmative Action in College Admission: Israel vs US

 
 
Miller
 
Reply Thu 17 Dec, 2015 11:01 am
The push today in the US, is to increase the number of minority students without using race as a criteria for admission. In Israel, this has been tried and appears to have been successful.

In the US, it is hoped by College officials, that minority student number can
be easily increased by placing emphasis on the socio-economic status ( not
race) of the College applicant in the firm belief ( based on the Israel trials) that increasing the number of socio-eonomically deprived students will translate to an immedicate increase in racial diversity ( and minority enrollment ) of the College. In many ways, this is still a type of affirmative action, but without having any direct dependency on race.
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maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Dec, 2015 11:04 am
@Miller,
I am curious...

By what measure are you claiming that Israel has been successful when it comes to minority students? I am skeptical, the real issue in Israel is rampant, institutionalized racism against Arab Israelis that permeates society.

Are you telling me that Arab Israelis are proportionally represented in college admissions? I would be surprised, and impressed, if this were the case.

Do you have the statistics to back up your claim?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Dec, 2015 11:05 am
@Miller,
I would also like to see students under Israeli occupation to have access to higher education, but this might be asking too much.
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Dec, 2015 11:06 am
@maxdancona,
If I can find the recent reference, ( either WSJ or NYT), I will print it here.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Dec, 2015 11:29 am
@Miller,
This article from the New York Times says the exact opposite of the point you are trying to make.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/16/opinion/what-israel-tells-us-about-affirmative-action-and-race.html?_r=0

Quote:

There is a country with a race-neutral, class-based affirmative action policy that is large enough to study: Israel. The evidence there suggests that, far from being complementary, broad diversity and race-neutrality are conflicting goals.

...

But it achieved these goals at the price of ethnic diversity. Only half of all those students admitted under the program are ethnic minorities, that is, Jews of Asian or African origin and Arabs, the groups at the bottom of Israel’s social stratification system. If a race-based affirmative action policy had been implemented instead of this policy, the level of ethnic diversity would have been twice as high. Such a policy would also expand the level of socioeconomic and geographic diversity at the Israeli bastions of privilege, but not as much as the class-based policy did.
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Foofie
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 17 Dec, 2015 08:18 pm
Whoa! A democratic nation could use a populace that is literate with a modicum of education; however, colleges being in the business of making more money to build libraries, research centers, dormitories, etc., for the future student bodies, why shouldn't universities have the right to maximize student tuitions and family donations by giving preference to those foreign students that pay full fare, and then more when donations are solicited? I might be thinking of oil sheikdom families, or some such wealthy families. In economics I thought it is called "market forces."
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Thu 17 Dec, 2015 09:01 pm
@Foofie,
America is a diverse democracy. We are talking about making sure that all Americans have an fair chance of getting a college education at all levels regardless of their race or ethnicity. This has nothing to do with immigrants.

It has to do with the fact that in any modern democracy such as the United States, your race or ethnicity doesn't dictate your opportunities or your value as a citizen.

Of course in Israel it is completely different. Your ethnicity absolutely defines your value as a citizen and your chance of opportunity. This is why any policy that increases the rate of success of even Arab Israeli citizens would never be politically feasible.

The idea that we would even compare Israel with the United States in terms of equality or fairness is laughable.

Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2015 02:16 pm
@maxdancona,
Market forces. Look it up if you like.
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Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2015 02:45 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:


It has to do with the fact that in any modern democracy such as the United States, your race or ethnicity doesn't dictate your opportunities or your value as a citizen.



Oh please. This country is owned and run by the demographic that were here prior to 1850, in my opinion. That being white protestants. They own the most land, they are on the interlocking directorates. So, even though others may live quite comfortably, or have amassed wealth, they do not control the destiny of this country, again in my opinon. Mind you, I do not begrudge this demographic for their position of dominance. They are the majority. They were here early and died from diseases that others never had to survive. They came to a land inhabitated by those that were fairly alienated from Europeans, yet hung in there. They also developed a system that allows others to contribute; more than I can say for Catholic Europe.

Try reading Max Weber, Protestantism and the Rise of Capitalism. So, if secular colleges, founded by Protestants are profit oriented, tough noogies on all those that cannot pay full fare.

Naturally my opinion is colored by my belief that a Catholic Europe made the Jew "expendable," and allowed many people to yawn when they heard the Holocaust occurred.

Have a zeiser Christmas.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Dec, 2015 07:30 am
@Miller,


Miller wrote:

If I can find the recent reference, ( either WSJ or NYT), I will print it here.


I can't find the reference, I've been citing.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Dec, 2015 07:48 am
@maxdancona,
I don't know what you mean by the term "opportunity". A kid from a Chicago slum, does have the opportunity to attend a free public high school situated in his neighborhood slum, just like a kid in the upscale town of Newton, Ma has the opportunity to attend the free public high school in Newton.

Big deal! Please don't try and compare the two public schools. While the kid from Newton stands a good chance of attending Yale or Harvard, the kid from the Chicago school stands a slight chance of being prepared to attend any college in Chicago or elsewhere.

Don't even try to compare life style of a Newton kid ( father=MD, mother PhD) with that of the Chicago kid.

Opportunities exist for the upper middle-class and the super-rich. For the poor , however, opportunities come as freely as blood from a rock.

Poor ( with their limited array of "opportunities"),who finally make it to the upper-middle or upper classes, never lose, however, that sticky, stinking dust left behind by poverty.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Dec, 2015 03:01 pm
@Miller,
Miller wrote:

Poor ( with their limited array of "opportunities"),who finally make it to the upper-middle or upper classes, never lose, however, that sticky, stinking dust left behind by poverty.


Social class makes for poverty, a la My Fair Lady.
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2015 09:06 am
@Foofie,
Quote:
Social class makes for poverty...


And also, hatred and dispair.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Dec, 2015 10:07 am
@Miller,
Miller wrote:

Quote:
Social class makes for poverty...


And also, hatred and dispair.

It did not in 19th century England; otherwise the high percentage working as domestics would not have been viable. It produced today's English commoners.
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