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is money the only barrier to enlightenment?

 
 
Reply Wed 18 Nov, 2015 11:51 pm
people believe money is necessary for survival. is this the major barrier to enlightenment. if you didn't have any money, you would find ways to survive without it. either you would depend on others', steal or just live off nature or many other possibilities. all these would be extremely damaging to the ego, but would naturally happen if the circumstances were forced upon you. so we create the idea that money is necessary for survival, in order to preserve the ego. we think we'd prefer making more money than living without it, but it ends up causing the depression in everyone because they end up feeling they have no choice but to continue working for more and more money, and life seems to become meaningless. also, everything that money buys only has value when shown to other people, as an ego booster. without other people knowing you have money, it has no value whatsoever. only if you overcome the notion that you need money does complete freedom become possible. thoughts?
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Type: Question • Score: 3 • Views: 3,618 • Replies: 11
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Razzleg
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Nov, 2015 12:40 am
@carnaticmystery,
Honestly, there are a lot of ideas embedded in your post that are worth exploring, but i don't feel that excavating them will be worth the time and trouble. Check out the writings of Wilhelm Reich. Those texts might help you organize your thoughts.
carnaticmystery
 
  0  
Reply Thu 19 Nov, 2015 04:22 am
@Razzleg,
thank you for the advice kind sir, but i don't feel my thoughts need any reorganizing. what i said was straight forward and i don't expect many people to agree. because most people's primary identity lies in their pursuit of money. i certainly don't need to read some psychiatrists' ideas, a field i left behind me because of its utterly corrupt, money-making, drug-peddling nature.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Nov, 2015 04:30 am
People need money in order to eat, and they need food a hell of a lot more than they need enlightenment, a vague, nebulous term which is usually employed by people who wish to preen themselves on the excellence of their understanding. The United Nations estimates that more than 800,000,000 people in the world are chronically malnourished. We had some Buddhist joker here for a while, who always said that the way to end suffering is through "enlightenment." Leaving aside that there is no basis to assume that "enlightenment" is any different, and certainly not superior to intellectual understanding--he could never answer the question of what a man who was a subsistence farmer who could not adequately feed his family was to do to end his suffering, and that of his family. Of course, there's also the disgusting hypocrisy of Buddhist monks being fed, while contributing nothing to their societies, and being fed by subsistence farmers.

This is all a bullsh*t dog and pony show. There is no reason to believe that there is some special form of understanding which deserves to be called enlightenment. The only barriers to enlightenment that i see among those who prate about enlightenment are their own conceit, arrogance and supercilious condescension.
carnaticmystery
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Nov, 2015 01:31 am
@Setanta,
those 800mill people are already enlightened, so to speak, as the need for enlightenment only arises out of all survival needs and desires being met, and hence a feeling of no meaning in life arising. they live for the purpose of finding food, if they can't, they die. that is a fulfilling life. it is only money minded people who think that having all the food and luxury in the world is a more fulfilling life. but it isn't, as psychological problems like depression and anxiety are steadily on the rise, and more so amongst affluent people. what is the point of living with everything, but constantly not enjoying life? go out in the wild and starve yourself for a few days, and then see how you go about finding food. in that time, see if you are sad/depressed/suffering, or if you are on an adrenaline rush with the sole aim of finding food. that is living. basically, the mind or ego evolves as it gets more of what it wants. once it gets too much, it becomes useless as it can never be fully satisfied, as it only came into existence for survival. if survival is definite, the mind will be infinitely dissatisfied. enlightenment, or going beyond mind, is the only cure for this.

now with regard to enlightenment itself, if you negate the possibility of such a thing, aren't you also simply preening yourself on the excellence of your understanding? you are the one saying intellectual understanding is everything, so who is the one who is conceited about their understanding? my idea of enlightenment is going beyond intellectual understanding, as the intellect cannot understand anything other than concepts created by ego. the buddhist monks who 'contribute nothing to society' actually contribute plenty in terms of enlightening others. but because you only see value in money, you say they contribute nothing. people who feed them do it happily and want to do it.

if you feel that people who speak about enlightenment are conceited, arrogant, condescending etc, it can only be because you know within yourself that you haven't found such a thing, and are worried that it may be possible, and you are missing out, and so you quickly negate that possibility and label those who speak about it as such.



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carnaticmystery
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Nov, 2015 01:43 am
@Setanta,
also, one more point regarding the starving people. there is, BY FAR, more than enough money to feed everyone on the planet and have no starving people. so again, it is the greed caused by hoarding money which prevents this. i am not talking about having everybody equal. but we could give them enough food so they are not 'chronically malnourished'. why isn't it happening?

and even if it did happen, eventually whoever gets too much luxury in life will end up seeing life has no meaning, and search for enlightenment. even in your case, if you are not searching for enlightenment, it is because you believe in some other things you are searching for which will fulfil you. get those things, and see if you are fulfillled or not. enlightenment is the end of searching for things.
0 Replies
 
andrewjack21
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Nov, 2015 02:22 am
I just say that it is only money minded people who think that having all the food and luxury in the world is a more fulfilling life. but it isn't, as psychological problems like depression and anxiety are steadily on the rise, and more so among affluent people. what is the point of living with everything,
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Nov, 2015 03:26 am
The premise that "life has no meaning" is typical of sorts of religious claims with which the righteous belabor others, claiming they are "enlightened" while others are not. There is no such thing as a special form of understanding called "enlightenment" to which one can aspire, but only if one recognizes certain special "truths," such as that "life has no meaning." Better to spend one's time feeding the 800,000,000 that to go around peddling superstitious claptrap and worrying if one will have enough cash to attain one's superstitious desires.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Nov, 2015 03:54 am
@Setanta,
You would change your mind in a hurry if you were truly enlightened.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Nov, 2015 04:19 am
@roger,
So i've been told . . .
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Nov, 2015 06:52 pm
@Setanta,
I was told that in my first philosophy class. There was not a second.
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kungwu111
 
  0  
Reply Mon 9 May, 2016 08:06 pm
......There is no (direct) connection between money and enlightenment......Thoughts (including the idea of enlightenment), especially the self-identification thoughts, can be obstacles......
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