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Help - Contraction Problem - I'm getting contradictory outcomes

 
 
Sun 5 Oct, 2014 06:50 pm
I have a basic Special Relativity problem that shows seemingly contradictory results depending which inertial frame you observe from Sad Here's the problem...

You have 2 identical spaceships approaching each other (let's say in the horizontal direction) at a relative speed of 0.8c where the rest length of each ship is 900m.

That is, you have a ship 1 moving from left to right and ship 2 approaching from right to left closing in on each other.

(so each ship as observed from the other ship is 540m long at 0.8c)

Now we also have a big ring with an inside rest diameter of 1000 m traveling alongside ship 2 just above ship 2 and matching it's speed...the ring is orientated so that it's diameter is parallel to the horizontal axis so from the other ship the diameter is contracted to 600m dia.

Now as the ships pass each other, both ships add a vertical component to their speed to pass through the ring.
<------ ======== Ring
ship 1 ------> <------ ship 2

As observed from ship 2 (the one moving at same speed at the ring right to left) the ring is 1000m in dia and ship 2 sees it's own length as 900 m and so passes through unscathed.

ALSO as observed from ship 2, ship 1 is 540 m in length and so it too passes through the ring unscathed...so far so good.

Next we look at what happens form ship 1's point of view...

Observed from ship 1, ship 2 is 540 m long and the ring diameter is 600m long...so ship 2 STILL passes through the ring unscathed.

BUT ship 1 sees its OWN length as 1000 m compared to the ring's contracted dia of 600 m and in trying to pass through, collides with the ring and is destroyed!

From ship 1's inertial frame it cannot pass through the ring but from ship 2's inertial frame ship 1 CAN pass through the ring..

How is this contradiction explained?

Thanks Much

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justafool44
 
  -4  
Sat 11 Jul, 2020 06:07 pm
@bartstreasures,
The reason for the contradiction is due to the simple fact that Einstein's hypothesis of SR is deeply flawed, and should never have been published as a work of science.
You don't have to dig very deep to find the reasons why Einstein's theories are irrational and deceptive.
I cant help wondering how much more advanced our technology would be if we did not have to be chained to these nonsense theories.
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maxdancona
 
  0  
Sat 11 Jul, 2020 06:52 pm
@bartstreasures,
The problem in your example is the phrase "add a vertical component". When you say "add a vertical component" you change the problem completely and the contradiction you think you see disappears mathematically. Of course, without adding this phrase, the problem doesn't make any sense.

I don't know how much mathematics you have... do you understand vectors? If you are going to try to work this out, you need to understand that length contraction only happens in the direction of the velocity vector.

Here is the challenge. Your initial analysis pretends that this problem can be solved in one spatial dimension (although you allude to a third). Because you have a moving ring, this problem must be solved in 3 spatial dimensions.

Obviously the spaceship can't move through a ring that is flat in the direction of motion. So you need to give the spaceship a direction that is not parallel to the ring... or it may be simpler to keep your setup an just put the ring at an angle (the mathematics will work the same either way).

So, in three dimensions, find a circumstance where the ship doesn't fit through the ring when it is going at an angle. Make sure the length contraction is in the direction of motion.

I think you will find that it is impossible to find a specific case where the math doesn't work out.
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maxdancona
 
  0  
Sat 11 Jul, 2020 06:56 pm
Wikipedia has this article which you might find interesting. It addresses a similar problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladder_paradox#Bar_and_ring_paradox

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